"If Daniel Craig doesn't like it, you won't get the job."
It's February 2020, and Phineas O'Connell recounts how he and his sister Billie Eilish ended up writing the theme for the latest James Bond film - No time to die.
"He's wondering," confirms Eilish. "That's what I've learned. He's really participating."
Located in the luxurious "Four Seasons" hotel, which towers over London's Tower Bridge, the two are cheerful and talkative - although a little tired after two appearances in a row at the Oscars and the Grammys.
The following night, they are to premiere the Bond song live at the Brit Awards with a twenty-piece orchestra.
A few weeks later, they are due to return to London for the film's world premiere.
"It's going to be crazy," Eilish says as she looks forward to seeing the film's opening credits for the first time.
"Oh God, I'm going to pee."
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And then fate intervened. And by fate I mean a massive, rampant pandemic.
It halts Billie Eilish's first world tour and keeps 007 out of theaters for the next 18 months.
But with the film finally set to premiere this week, No time to die from waiting.
Here's a detailed behind-the-scenes look at how Billie Eilish's Bond song came about - from writer's block and rejected ideas, to Johnny Marr's legendary tremolo guitar.
How do you even get to write a Bond theme? Do you just bombard Daniel Craig with messages until he finally gives in?
Billy: We've always wanted to write a Bond song - before it was even an option.
Phineas: We've been writing themes and brainstorming tunes for a few years, going so far as to say out loud, 'Wouldn't it be cool if we got to do a Bond song one day?'
And when we heard that they were shooting the 25th film, we immediately arranged a meeting with Barbara Broccoli, the producer, to explain to her why we would be a good choice.
Were you part of a group that competed for the job - like Radiohead and Sam Smith for Spectra?
Billy: I guess we did, but we were never told, “You have to compete with all these other people.” It wasn't like that at all.l.
When you started writing, were you reminded of all those old ideas you had accumulated?
Billy: We started from scratch. We had a meeting with Barbara in Ireland at the beginning of September 2019 and she sent us the first scene from the script - the part before the opening credits.
Phineas: And that's all we could rely on plot-wise.
Billy: I think it actually made the whole thing easier for us. We always write the fastest when we have a story or write about something that happened.
Wasn't one of the first songs you wrote, Fingers Crossed, inspired by the series Surrounded by the Dead?
Billy: Phew! I mean, it is, but don't listen to that song. Please don't.
Phineas: Yes, listen better No time to die!
What was the first part you wrote for No Time to Die?
Billy: We had a huge author's block as soon as we got the assignment.
Phineas: We rented a studio and we went to try to write it - and we didn't write anything good.
Billy: Oh my God, I completely forgot about that!
And what did you do then?
Phineas: We ended up writing and recording the whole song on a tour bus in Texas.
Billy: Phineas came up with that piano theme and we immediately went, 'Ohhhhh' and wrote a whole song out of it.
Phineas: After that it was a very relaxed process. It took us about three days for him.
Billy: Which is very fast for us.
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Lyrically, the song is about cheating lovers - and there's a scene in one trailer where Bond confronts Madeline Swann about her betrayal. Was that the inspiration?
Phineas: I think it's safe to assume, but I don't know if we're even allowed to say it!
Billy: We're not allowed to say anything about the movie - but, I mean, in the trailer, something happens, right? Someone was betrayed, and someone betrayed…
Phineas: The development path of Bond's character is a cycle of trickery, deception and betrayal.
Billie Eilish: That's his whole life.
Phineas: And that idea fit into what little script we got to see. But there is also a universal theme. Everyone once believed in something that turned out not to be true. And so I think we wanted to touch on that as a theme.
At one point you sing, "Was it obvious to everyone else?" That's the kind of thing you'd ask friends after a breakup... "Did you guys know about it all along?"
Billy: And most of the time they are! That's what everyone says: love is blind. Literally go blind. You really go blind. All warning signs disappear, everything disappears, all your senses - just disappear.
And that's why I think Phineas is right. We didn't want to write a song that only made sense in the movie. We wanted to write a song that makes sense in the world and in the lives of all people.
And the lyrics to that song have really struck a chord on several occasions in my life since we wrote it. It's interesting how that happens.
You hit some high notes at the very end, Billy. This is new territory for you.
Billy: Oh yeah, it was scary.
Phineas: She called me the night after she recorded it. She said, "Throw it out!"
Billy: I was really uncomfortable.
But it's really good!
Billy: Thank you! But I've never done it before. I didn't even try. I didn't even make that sound with my mouth.
It was funny, because we had this idea for a belt [a technique where a singer reaches high notes by pulling his voice out of his chest] in the second part of the song, and then it got thrown out because we had to shorten the song.
Phineas: The first version we wrote was five minutes long and we had to cut it down to 3'40".
Billy: But we still wanted to have some grandiose moment in it, because it's a Bond song. And as much as I was known for singing softly, I said to myself: "I'll prove that I can do the latter."
Phineas: I think it's a list of prerequisites for a Bond song. You need that Bond chord, you need an orchestra and you need some kind of grand note.
Billy: We got up to film her. I have a video somewhere - we're both standing in his bedroom yelling into the microphone, "Vagagaggagh!"
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It's a song that's completely in the style of Billie Eilish, but by chance, it has the motifs of a Bond song woven into it. You didn't bother to do Goldfinger.
Phineas: We took care, especially in terms of production, to keep it very restrained. We definitely weren't trying to do a dang-dagga-dang-dang-dang sounding surfer guitar.
Johnny Marr: Everyone involved was careful not to distort Bill's style and to preserve the integrity of the song - because it's a very tight, minimalistic track. The easiest thing in the world would be to start with loud horns and just turn them up and up until they get even more bombastic.
Phineas: Those films have a certain style and we wanted to convey that. Like we didn't insert an oscillating bass into the song. We wanted the production to be as timeless as the films themselves.
And it ends with the legendary Bond chord. Whose idea was that?
Billy: We can't take credit for that. Johnny Marr is responsible for that from start to finish.
Johnny Marr: E minor 9 - that's a classic Bond motif, isn't it? It can only be played on guitar, so I'm actually paying homage to John Berry there. It's a little tradition.
You are known for inserting disturbing samples or dislocated sounds into your songs. Is there anything like that here?
Phineas: There's a microtone slide at the beginning of the song. I wanted it to sound like a train leaving the station - and coming back into the song constantly in the form of big glissandos. It became the cornerstone of the song.
Billy: That's my favorite part.
How did you feel when you finished it?
Billy: Before that, I was nervous. I was saying to myself, "This isn't Bond-like enough." And once we wrote it, I was extremely satisfied.
Johnny Marr: Before I even heard the song itself, when I found out that Billy was going to do it, I thought it was a very intriguing choice. And when I heard the song, I said to myself, "Oh, this is fantastic." Even the demo version sounded very good to me.
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I know you made a music video, but the song will be used in the opening credits of the movie.
Billy: Oh, yeah!
Do you decide to any extent what it will look like?
Billy: Nothing at all.
In the past, Bond songs were very sexualized - which you have been known to criticize elsewhere.
Billy: Yeah, but this is Bond. Bond wouldn't be Bond without sex. That is its essence.
Phineas: As I recall, Daniel Craig is shirtless quite often in many movies. I think it's equal on both sides.
The scene in the speedo panties remained in the memory of many.
Phineas: He's pretty muscular there.
Billy: [sighs] I love Daniel Craig.
Watch the video about the London premiere of the new James Bond film
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