The top leader of Hamas outside Gaza told the BBC that the crisis his organization has caused in the Middle East, which has led to thousands of deaths across the region in the past year, is justified.
When the BBC's international editor Jeremy Bowen disputed his claims, Khalil al-Haya, the deputy leader of Hamas, denied ample evidence that Hamas fighters attacked civilians during the attack on October 7 last year.
About 1.200 people died then, mostly Israeli civilians, and more than 250 of them were taken as hostages to Gaza.
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Hamas has been designated a terrorist organization in the UK and other countries.
The interview was conducted in Doha, where most of the political leadership of Hamas resides.
Khalil al-Haja became the top Hamas leader outside Gaza after Israel killed his predecessor, Ismail Haniyeh, in July.
Iran attacked Israel with ballistic missiles about an hour after the interview was recorded.
DžB (Jeremy Bowen): Let's go back to October 7 last year - why did Hamas attack Israel?
KAH (Kalil al Haja): We had to raise an alarm in the whole world, to tell it that we are people with a goal and demands. It was a blow to Israel, the Zionist enemy - and a wake-up call to the international community.
We had to do something that would tell the world that there is a nation that has been under occupation for decades.
DžB: Why did your people kill so many civilians, children too?
KAH: We ordered our resistance fighters NOT to attack civilians - women and children - on October 7.
The target was the occupying soldiers, who have always been killing, bombing and destroying in Gaza. We do not support harming civilians.
There were certainly personal mistakes on the field - and actions. The fighters may have thought their lives were in danger.
DžB: Your people were not threatened, they were with the terrified civilians who were sitting on the ground, and they were standing over them with weapons in their hands. It's not a fight.
KAH: We all saw how the fighters entered the houses. They talked with the families, ate and drank with them...
DžB: I'm sorry, but they shot at them... There are recordings.
KAH: When they entered some of the houses, none of the women and children were frightened. Those recordings were released by the Israeli occupier. We didn't publish them.
DžB: Let's move on to what happened after October 7. Almost a year later, Gaza is in ruins, with more than 40.000 dead, many of them civilians. Your ability to fight against Israel is significantly diminished. Was it worth all of this? Have you thought about the fact that something like this could happen?
KAH: Who is responsible for that? Is it the occupier and his army? Who destroyed Gaza? Who was killing her people? Who is killing civilians now, in shelters, schools and hospitals?
Ask the world - and those who wrote international law. We defend ourselves. If 1.200 of the occupier's people were killed, how does that give Israel the right to kill 50.000 people and destroy all of Gaza? Is that not enough for them? But they are motivated by the desire to kill, to occupy and the desire to destroy.
DžB: The Israelis have made it very clear that they respect the laws of war and that the reason so many civilians have died is because you and Hamas are fighting from the civilian population and using them as human shields.
KAH: That's not true. They demolished mosques on the heads of their owners when there were no fighters there. They destroyed houses and high-rise buildings, when no one was in them. They bombed houses when there were no fighters in them. It's all Israeli propaganda.
DžB: Can we talk about the hostages - why was it necessary to take more than 250 hostages, among them women and children?
KAH: One of the objectives of October 7 was to kidnap a small group of Israeli soldiers, to exchange them for Palestinian prisoners. But when the Gaza Division completely disintegrated before the resistance fighters, we took a lot of prisoners. It was not our plan to capture civilians, including women and children.
DžB: Some of the women who came forward said that they were sexually assaulted.
KAH: The orders and ethics of all Palestinians - including resistance fighters - are humanitarian. We were brought up in accordance with the Islamic faith, culture and national civilization. We protect them as we protect ourselves. Sexual - or non-sexual assaults - have never been proven.
DžB: No, there are women who claim that they were sexually harassed. Young women who were at the Nova festival. Women who say they were sexually assaulted on October 7 and later - the evidence for this is mounting.
KAH: I told you the instructions were clear. There may have been abnormal acts by irresponsible people, but these are just allegations.
DžB: What about the truce? Israel says that under the right circumstances he would agree to a truce. How about bringing back the civilians and ending the war - would you accept that? That was negotiated, I know that.
KAH: The question is when Netanyahu will decide to end the war. When will the world make him stop the war? It is the decision of Netanyahu and the Israeli occupier to continue the war.
DžB: You could do that. You could surrender.
KAH: How can we surrender? People who fight against the occupation do not give up. If we surrender, which is impossible, our children and our people will not give up.
Why should we surrender? The occupier should stop killing. Reaching an armistice agreement was within reach on July 2. Who came up with the new terms? Netanyahu! That's why no agreement was reached.
DžB: You are losing the war - Gaza is in ruins, tens of thousands of people are dead, and Israel is targeting Lebanon and now it feels strong. You don't get this, do you?
KAH: My family, my children, my extended family, my relatives and my neighbors are in Gaza. We see through their eyes. We feel their pain. We weep for their wounds. What hurts them hurts us too.
If the world would grant us our legitimate rights, this cycle of violence would end. But Israel does not want that. The world must understand that Israel wants to burn the entire region.
If the Palestinians do not get their right to a state, to the return of refugees and to self-determination, the region will not calm down, no matter how much death and killing there is.
DžB: As for you, is the state of Israel part of your future? Hamas' charter states that the Zionist state must be destroyed.
KAH: We say that Israel wants to eliminate Hamas and the Palestinian people.
Israel cries and claims that Hamas and the Palestinian people want to destroy it. Let's ask Israel what it thinks about the Palestinian people. Give us our rights - give us a fully sovereign Palestinian state.
DžB: The Israelis say that the reason why they do not accept the two-state solution is strah that people like you will want to destroy their country and kill their people.
KAH: So far, Israel has not recognized the one-state solution - or the two-state solution. Israel rejects everything - international resolutions, international law and our rights.
DžB: Do you see yourself as a terrorist? That's what Israel calls you.
KAH: I fight for freedom and defend my people. For the occupier, we are all terrorists - leaders, women and children. You have heard what the Israeli leaders have called us. They say we are animals.
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