Lebo Disco
world religion correspondent
Jesse Romero, a conservative Catholic podcaster, had some choice words for Pope Leo XIII.
“The Pope needs to tell us how to get to heaven,” Romero says.
"He has no authority over the government; he has to stay in his own lane."
As a supporter of US President Donald Trump, he is angry about the criticism the American-born pope and American bishops have leveled at his mass deportation policy.
With one in five Americans identifying as Catholic, the Church plays an important role in American life and politics.
Catholics, such as Vice President J.D. Vance and influential legal activist Leonard Leo, were important cogs in Trump's electoral success.
They are also at the heart of the cabinet, with Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Education Secretary Linda McMahon in key positions.
But the issue of immigration has become a seed of discord between Church leadership and government, as well as among believers themselves.
When the cardinals gathered for the papal conclave in May, Romero hoped for a “Trump-like pope,” with views similar to the president’s.
Instead, Pope Leo XV has repeatedly expressed concern about the treatment of migrants in the US, calling in November for a “profound examination” of the issue.
The Pontiff referred to the Gospel of Matthew, adding that "Jesus says very explicitly, when the end of the world comes, we will be asked: 'How did you welcome the stranger?'".
A week later, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) issued a rare “Special Message” expressing “concern over the evolving situation affecting immigrants in the United States.”
The bishops say they are "disturbed" by what they call "a climate of fear and uncertainty."
"They oppose the indiscriminate mass demonstration of people" and "pray for an end to dehumanizing rhetoric and violence."
It was a significant intervention, as it was the first time the USCCB had used such an official address in decades.
He was also supported by the Pope, who called the statement "very important" and called on all Catholics and "people of good will to listen to it carefully."
Picking a fight with the Pope
“I think the relationship is quite strained,” says David Gibson, director of the Center on Religion and Culture at Fordham University.
Conservatives had hoped that Pope Leo would bring a change from his predecessor Pope Francis' emphasis on issues of social justice and migration, according to Gibson.
"A lot of them are furious. They want to tell the church to shut up" and get down to issues like abortion, Gibson says.
White House border "czar" Tom Homan, also a Catholic, said the Church was "wrong" and that its leaders "need to spend time fixing the Catholic Church."
And in October, White House press secretary Carolyn Leavitt rejected the Chicago-born pope's suggestion that America's treatment of immigrants was "inhumane" and inconsistent with "pro-life" beliefs.
Gibson claims that the government is counting on "there being enough American Catholics, particularly white American Catholics, who support the Republican Party and Trump, that when all is said and done, they have a political advantage in picking a fight with the Pope."
"It's an unprecedented calculation."
Nearly 60 percent of white Catholics approve of how Trump is handling immigration, according to a new study by the think tank Institute for Research on Public Religion.
That figure is about 30 percent for Hispanics, who make up 37 percent of the American Catholic population.
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The growing power and dominance of right-wing Catholics in the political sphere is best illustrated by J.D. Vance, who is a convert to this religion and says that his faith influences his political views.
While he claims that the current policy does not conflict with the teachings of the Church, he also says there is a responsibility not to forget the humanity of people who are in the country illegally.
But some Catholics say that's not what's happening right now.
Jean Rattenberry is a parishioner at St. Gertrude Catholic Church in Chicago.
This city is particularly targeted by the Trump administration's immigration crackdown.
In November, Rattenberry, along with two thousand other people, attended Mass outside an Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) detention center in the Broadway neighborhood of Chicago.
The "People's Mass" was one in a series of actions by the Coalition for Spiritual and Public Leadership (CSPL).
The goal, she says, "was to provide Communion to the people inside, to perform a service for them, which was once allowed and is now not allowed."
CSPL has now filed a federal lawsuit claiming it is prevented from holding religious services.
"I am proud to be Catholic when the Catholic Church, from the Pope to the bishops, says that immigrants have the right to be treated with respect."
"They have the right to have their inherent human dignity respected," says Rattenberry.
Such is the power of this belief that a church near Boston used a nativity scene to convey the message that Jesus was a refugee.
St. Susanna Parish in Dedham, Massachusetts, replaced the baby Jesus with a hand-painted sign that reads "ICE was here."
Some in the community complained about it, and the Catholic Archdiocese of Boston ordered the sign removed, saying it was polarizing and against rules on sacred objects.
The Church has not done this so far.
Although many American Catholics still hold conservative views on issues such as abortion, in line with the Church's official positions, they are also more likely to see themselves as more progressive than white evangelical Christians, who have overwhelmingly voted Republican in the last three elections.
About a third of white Catholics, on the other hand, consistently voted for the Democratic Party.
And almost a third of Catholics in the US were born in another country.
“This is a church that was born of immigration,” says David Gibson.
"The Catholic brand in the United States is an immigrant church."
'Not in line with the gospel'
Bishop Joseph Tyson of Yakima, Washington, was one of 216 bishops who supported the USCCB Special Message.
Only five bishops voted against it, and three abstained during the vote.
“There is a fundamental disagreement about how the church views immigrants in our parish, versus how the current administration views immigrants.
"We see much more positive in these immigrants."
He says he is not in favor of open borders, an argument also championed by Pope Leo, but he is against "indiscriminate deportation."
"Deportation is not seen by our congregation and our people in the United States as surgical or aimed only at criminals," the bishop says.
He estimates that about half of the families in his predominantly Hispanic diocese have someone in the household facing some kind of immigration status issue.
Priests themselves are often immigrants, which puts the Church in an increasingly awkward position.
Bishop Tyson says that more than a third of the clergy he personally ordained were at some point on a temporary visa before receiving a green card, a process that can seem extremely uncertain in the current climate.
"I have a seminarian in the Chicago area. He's on a T-visa, but ICE showed up and he was scared they were going to pick him up," he says.
"Anyone can have their residence permit revoked, so our people carry their papers with them wherever they go."
Bishop Tyson claims that current American policies are contrary to Catholic teachings.
"All Catholics in public life who support indiscriminate deportation should feel great remorse. It is not in keeping with the Gospel of life."
For Jesse Romero, however, it is the American bishops and the Pope who are at odds with Catholic doctrine.
He claims that the Catechism is unambiguous on the issue that immigrants must obey all laws, even those that they should not be in the country.
"We have a large number of bishops in the Catholic Church in America who have a modernist, more liberal, progressive view of Scripture and theology."
Romero says he prays for their transformation.
Although he accepts the pope and bishops as leaders of the faith, "that does not mean that in private reflections they will be right about everything."
"And they are only human. The only man who is sinless is Jesus. He is perfect."
"Everyone else needs to pray for each other."
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