Many things indicate the existence of criminal activities among the representatives of the former government, but they have protected themselves in such a way for 30 years that you legally cannot move them even an iota. So, there are well-founded indications that the top of the Montenegrin state is involved in everything, but it is up to someone else to prove that. I can't say that I wouldn't like to have the best relations with Serbia, however I have to emphasize that I have never gone anywhere uninvited, but I will be happy if I receive an invitation to come to Belgrade. I don't have any bad intentions towards Mr. Vučić, I just said one sentence that is absolutely true - and that is that he saw Mr. Đukanović more times than I saw one of my godfathers, the Prime Minister of Montenegro pointed out in an interview for Nova.rs Up Zdravko Krivokapić.
Krivokapić also referred to relations with Serbia, repeating that he has no communication with the president of that country, Aleksandar Vučić.
How far have we come with the changes to the law relating to dual citizenship. Will the citizens of Montenegro and Serbia be able to have two passports?
When we made the first analysis, we saw that a certain number of our citizens were damaged, even though they live here, have families and pay taxes. It is a form of discrimination. We have decided to solve everything that looks like discrimination and we have already started the procedure of drafting the law on citizenship. That law represents a problem for certain political parties, because they think that the man who is there, who came from Serbia or Republika Srpska, is a pre-profiled voter, and that is not true. Every person has the right to determine himself freely, regardless of his nationality. They always went along the line that we have the least liberal law on citizenship, because I guess the logic is that the smallest country should have the least liberal law. On the contrary, there are numerous examples of small countries that have extremely liberal citizenship laws. We will find a measure that is acceptable in favor of these citizens that I talked about a moment ago. The draft of that law, according to our plans, should be expected in May, and then a parliamentary procedure that does not depend on the government will follow.
At one time, you stated that the President of Serbia Aleksandar Vučić and Milo Đukanović have a very close relationship. After that statement, Vučić invited you to provide evidence for that. Is there such evidence?
You see, the public knows much more than the Prime Minister himself. I just said one sentence that is absolutely true - that Mr. Vučić saw Mr. Đukanović more times than I saw one of my godfathers. And that is absolutely true. There is material evidence for that and I don't want to be a police officer now. I know exactly what I said and why I said it, and whether someone is hurt more or less is not up to me. I didn't mean anything bad. Good intention is the basic characteristic of my being. I have no bad intentions towards Mr. Vučić. I'm sorry I had to say what was right.
What is your relationship with Vučić now? Do you have communication?
I met with the President of Serbia, Mr. Vučić, twice. The first time was at the funeral of Metropolitan Amfilohi, and the second time was at the funeral of Patriarch Irinej. These are places where deals and stories do not take place, because it is the act of a person's relationship with someone who has gone to the other world. We politely, very correctly, exchanged a few sentences and that's all. There was no contact after that. Those are the facts.
Why is it like that?
I am a man whom you cannot influence. It can be dark and it can shine, but I am who I am. I can't be different. I do not want to have any influence, neither from Montenegro in relation to the actions of this government, nor from other countries, nor from foreign embassies. I want to hear, listen and choose what is best for Montenegro, not what someone would like our country to look like. I am ready for all agreements, because, of course, I cannot say that I would not like to have the best relations with Serbia. I have not gone anywhere uninvited, but I will be happy to respond to any invitation, especially if it comes from Serbia.
The Government of Serbia requested that you withdraw the decision to expel the Serbian ambassador (Vladimir Božović), and the Prime Minister stated that this was the reason why she did not accept your invitation to come on an official visit to Montenegro. Any chance you can do that?
At this moment, surely no one in the government is thinking of withdrawing that decision. I don't want to get into a conflict with legal opinion, and according to the Vienna Convention, everything is over as soon as 72 hours have passed. Why was Mr. Tarzan Milošević withdrawn within 72 hours and remained ambassador? Because that time has been respected. Today, we conduct our relations on whether Mr. Božović has formally or informally become persona non grata and whether he is important for future relations between the two countries. There are numerous diplomats in Serbia who can certainly make relations between Serbia and Montenegro better and more fruitful than Mr. Božović. If Serbia considers him to be its best representative in Montenegro, then let them propose him through the normal procedure. I don't see why it would be a problem now and an obstacle to good cooperation and relationships. That sounds like my least favorite word - blackmail. I react worst to blackmail. Let us not do that, but let us solve the problems we have together, through conversation and dialogue, respecting both countries and working in the interests of both citizens.
Numerous reputable international organizations and part of the Serbian public believe that Serbia is not a democratic country, which, between the lines, can be contradicted in the report of the European Commission. How does Serbia look to you from Montenegro?
I didn't have time to deal with Serbia, because I was only and exclusively dealing with Montenegro. I know that Freedom House placed Serbia in the "hybrid regime" category for 2020. This is not good. The freedom of citizens should be the measure of life in every aspect, and in order for freedom to be applied in practice - democracy should provide that. The democratic system is good because it emphasizes the most important characteristic of man, which is that he has the right to choose without pressure. These are strange spaces and times, which is why I have quoted Charles de Gaulle on several occasions, who says: “Once you win, you win. The second time you win, you have proven that your victory was worth it. The third time if you win, you will be a dictator”. Perhaps it is a measure of our spaces and if we would like everyone to be better and of higher quality, it should not depend on any one person, nor any party, but on the best choice for the citizens of any country. What I am saying refers to my position and I am not saying it because of Mr. Vučić or anyone else.
How do you evaluate the decision of the Government of Serbia to donate 2.000 doses of vaccines to you? Do you treat it as a humanitarian gesture or a political move?
I experienced that exclusively and only as a humanitarian gesture, although I know that everything is politics.
Could the eventual extradition of Svetozar Marović to Montenegro be a step towards improving relations with Serbia?
As a government, we did everything to ensure that Mr. Marović was extradited to Montenegro. We even sent one new request, which is not part of the usual diplomatic practice, but our attempt to encourage someone to think about the reason why Mr. Svetozar Marović is so important that he cannot come to Montenegro, even though everyone knows that he owns cafes and freely moves around Serbia. I will remind you that Interpol issued a warrant for him. We are concerned that everything is possible for someone, and everything is denied to others. What is it that Serbia cannot do to extradite Mr. Marović? Since for a period of time there was an attitude that medical help is the key element why he is still in Serbia, we specifically noted in our letter that we want all the medical teams to be around him so that he has everything he has in Belgrade. Justice must be above all else, and the Prime Minister and the President must be brought to a better understanding of their rights, if they deserve it.
It seems that since taking power you have encountered resistance, not only from the former regime, but also from representatives of the opposition. What kind of relations do you have today with the leaders of the Democratic Front, Mandić, Medojević and Knežević?
Those relations are absolutely not at the level they should be. I don't want to get into who is to blame for such a situation, but if we look at the number of "poison arrows" that certain leaders direct at me and the Government of Montenegro, then we should all ask ourselves what it is about. I'm just going to quote one characteristic that Aristotle once expressed: "You can only be good in one way, and you can be bad in a thousand ways." If we really want Montenegro to be different, then let us respect each other. The minimum is respect. I do not want to comment further on our relations, which are certainly not at an enviable level.
And how are your relations now with Dritan Abazović and Aleks Bečić?
I once said, although it is not nice to predict, that these are people who have the potential to be, not only Montenegrin, but European politicians, because Montenegro will surely soon become a full member of the European Union. Since Mr. Abazović is a member of the Government, I think it would be ugly for me to judge a member of the government who has exceptional political charm. In the institutional sense, I cooperate as much as possible with the President of the Assembly, Aleks Bečić. In every respect, he fulfills an exceptional democratic capacity. This is also the hope that in the future period of time we will overcome the many problems we have in this challenge of the transition of power. Mr. Bečić, in a professional and friendly manner, wants to benevolently contribute to bringing this process forward together.
After you came to power, you pointed out that a good part of government documentation from 2016 to 2020 was destroyed. It was said that it was, among other things, data related to the wiretapping of opposition members. Did you find out who ordered the destruction of the documents?
Everything started from here (Government of Montenegro). We did not find any paper or anything in any of the computers. When we started the procedure of searching for accurate data for the allocation of apartments, we could not find a single data, which then started the whole story. After Dejan Vukšić became acting director of the National Security Agency (ANB) and after we told him what was happening here, he tried to get hold of certain documents in the same way, because there were stories among the people that a large number of those documents driven away, burned and destroyed. That's what everyone was talking about. Believe me, these people are not at all naive and there is certainly some truth in every story. In that truth check, Mr. Vukšić came to certain knowledge based on precisely defined statements, it seems to me seven witnesses, and it was processed. Later, there was a bad message sent by the Prosecutor's Office, which should have investigated and prosecuted everything to the end, in the best possible way. Then it would be seen who ordered the destruction of documents. For now, it is assumed that the principal is the former director of ANB.
Do you think he could have done it on his own or was there someone above him who ordered him to do it?
In Montenegro, nothing can be by chance. I believe that it should be left to the judiciary, regardless of the fact that there is our fear of repeating what happened in the case of "Snimak", where in the end it turned out that what you saw - was not true. I hope that the prosecutor's office will find the strength to prosecute this case in the right way. Unfortunately, until now in the history of Montenegro, it never happened that we reached the client. I think the time has come to see who ordered it, why they did it and what was so significant that it should be destroyed.
Were you bugged when you were in the opposition?
I have to go back to the nineties first. During '96. year, I, wanting to help a certain group in the IT sense, was, conditionally speaking, a political participant. That's when I encountered material evidence that someone was listening in on my cabinet. In the past five years, I have addressed this issue twice. First, to the National Security Agency, asking why I am of security interest. Then I had evidence related to the use of mobile phones - that mobile phone behavior indicated that someone was listening in on you. I asked for someone to give me an explanation as to why this is happening. Also, once upon a time, a relative, who was a little involved in those affairs, gave me a phone number and said: "This is that number, if someone answers you when you call, know that you are being tapped." That's what I did and the person on the other end answered and I just said, "Just do your job and everything will be fine". Previously, my wife called the same number, but no one answered. This means that there were indeed indications that someone was eavesdropping on you, but I certainly have nothing to fear. What I say to you, I say in my office, at home, and on the street. I don't have that problem. Why should I bother whether someone is eavesdropping on me or not? Today they claim that it is impossible for someone not to eavesdrop on you. The only question is whether it is authorized by law. You know, there are parallel systems, and maybe someone from such systems is eavesdropping on you for some reason. However, why bother if you are speaking and witnessing the truth? A man who speaks the truth has no reason to fear whether someone is eavesdropping on him and why. What can I do as prime minister? I want to be an open prime minister who will submit a bill to every citizen for every cent spent. For everything I do, I want it to represent a measure of true kindness towards the citizens, not towards me personally or my private interest. We have turned things around, we live in a time when private interest is stronger than social and state interest. That is unacceptable.
Would you agree, though, that it would be scandalous for someone to eavesdrop on the prime minister of the country without authorization?
Believe me, even if he does it without authorization - I don't have a problem. The only thing is that it is illegitimate. I want everything to be legitimate. If someone gave a wiretapping order, that person has their own assumptions about why they did it. Maybe to make my security better, I don't know. If they work in the interest of the state and if it is legitimate, then let them.
Do you believe that the head of the DPS, that is, Milo Đukanović, is behind the wiretapping of the opposition?
I have no proof, so it can only be a guess. I also realized that politics has its own market and in that competition everyone does their job. Unfortunately, you have parties that want to destroy others, because they are their competition. I think that we should develop a concept in which those who are the best and of the highest quality come to the fore.
Does the previous investigation into the activities of the previous government indicate criminal activities?
A lot of things point to that, but they've protected themselves so much in 30 years that you legally can't move them one iota. Yesterday, at the Privatization Council, for the first time I encountered the fact that the most beautiful part of Montenegrin foam from the sea, with a huge area, has been leased for, imagine - 90 years. Imagine, the rent for the first 30 years is 0,77 cents, the next three decades 0,88, and the last 30 years 0,99. I would ask the person who leased it if he would have done so if it was his personal property. Here the question can be asked, was there corruption and why is the price so low? This is just one case, and there are many. All this speaks of the unsystematic approach of the previous government, which did not take a comprehensive look at all the elements and provide a solution in which neither the state nor the investor is harmed and where the citizens feel the benefits of the investment.
So there are well-founded indications and results of the investigation that point to the very top of the Montenegrin state?
Yes, it exists, but it's up to someone else to prove it.
You said that you have many friends in Belgrade, when will you come to the capital of Serbia for coffee?
I recently went to Trebinje, after which most of the media and politicians evaluated it as a precedent. Imagine what it would be like if I came to Belgrade. I know where I've been most often and where even the waiters know me, but now if I were to do that, believe me I'd be in person here. Not to say even in the region. Of course, I want to have privacy, but I can't seem to have it. I am one of the few prime ministers who is followed so much and who is always in the news, if he does anything that a certain part of the public considers inappropriate. Let it be so, but let it be good for all of us and the message that it will apply equally to every president of the country, prime minister, speaker of the parliament. People of the same rank must be treated equally. Why am I the only one on the wallpaper? Believe me, I can't wait to come to Belgrade and visit a pastry shop and a cafe. Of course, I have a large number of friends in the capital of Serbia, they are mostly people from my profession, but I also have numerous relatives that I would like to visit.
And will the citizens of Serbia be able to come to the sea in Montenegro without any problems this year?
I know that last year the political attitude prevailed, but that will not be the case this time. We will do everything so that, especially tourists from the region, they will be our dear guests this tourist season, as well as every next season. Also, from contact with the Russian ambassador, we learned that a large number of tourists from Russia want to come to the tourist coast. We will do our best to be ready for the tourist season and to welcome all tourists, especially those from Serbia, who are the most numerous. Although it was the opinion of some people that you cannot enter Montenegro without a PCR test, we decided that the European criteria should be related to countries that are trying to join the European Union.
Do you share the desire of a good part of the faithful of the Serbian Orthodox Church in Montenegro that Bishop Joanikije should be the new Metropolitan of Montenegro and the Littoral?
Yes, and now I'm going to explain why - in the past, national-church councils were a measure of the election of a certain bishop. Of course, it came down to the Assembly of the Serbian Orthodox Church. Bishop Joanikije has become one of the most respected bishops of the Serbian Orthodox Church through all his activities so far. He was born here, in Nikšić, and all his time, monastic and later episcopal life, he tied to Montenegro and he knows the conditions in this country best. He is the man who started lithium and someone who was, in a certain way, targeted as the main problem of lithium. He was arrested because of the Church, which shows that he is worthy of the throne of Saint Peter of Cetinje.
Bearing in mind that the centenary of the work of the Government of Montenegro was recently marked, what would you single out as the greatest success of your cabinet in the previous period?
I reduced it to seven elements.
The first element is the one related to the pandemic and the problem with the coronavirus, where we were, after all, caught off guard. Literally no one, from July until the coming to power of the new government, tried to do anything. Then it was a race against time and opportunities that are conditioned by the market and the attitude that this government brought before that, which refers to the fact that we only want to have contacts directly with vaccine manufacturers or governments of other countries. Of course, this was not accepted favorably by many in the public, but it is our position in order to preserve safety and security and to take care of the economic effects related to the procurement of vaccines. With the arrival of the vaccine, first from Serbia, and later from Russia and China, we started a process in which we will have more than 300 thousand vaccines by the end of April. This guarantees us that we will welcome the tourist season with our citizens who will be vaccinated. It is the first important element, because health has no price.
The second element, which is very significant, is the moment when we launched the bonds three days after the official formation of the new Government of Montenegro. Bonds in the amount of 750 million euros were launched. There were various comments, there will always be, but what is certain is that in this way we ensured economic sustainability that will certainly last until 2022.
The third element refers to amendments to certain laws, and one of the key ones, which led to the division in Montenegro, is the Law on Freedom of Religion. In addition to the above, we have applied all other laws that affect the fact that we can ensure the functioning of the system in the right way. One of them is the Law on Fiscalization, the postponement of which is linked to a six-month delay, in order to enable the economy to prepare and so that everyone applies the law equally.
The fourth element may not have been promoted in the right way, and it refers to the package of measures that was given for the first quarter of this year. That amount, which may be at the level of a statistical error for some other countries (about 160 million euros), supports the economy and citizens. At least one hundred thousand citizens of Montenegro are covered by this package of measures and the range of economic entities that can use the benefits arising from this package of measures has been expanded. In this way, we gave an incentive so that the unemployed could return to their jobs, because our measures entailed additional stimulation of businessmen who have the opportunity to do so.
The fifth element refers to diplomacy, which until now was not legally based in Montenegro, because the law was not respected. The number of political diplomats compared to career diplomats was twice as high. We want to change that and shift the focus towards economic diplomacy.
The sixth element is related to our essential characteristic and commitment of this government - and that is the fight against organized crime and corruption. Although many complain to us that the results are very poor compared to expectations, we have done everything in our power to secure and process suitable cases. For the first time, the National Coordination Team for the fight against crime and corruption was formed. That team works literally around the clock, as does the entire government, so that we can manage to see and process everything. Of course, we leave the rest of the work to the prosecution and the judiciary.
Also, I would like to point out one element that I would like to encourage in particular, which is good company management, that is, corporate management. We have prepared appropriate methods and models for this, so that already at one of the next sessions we will choose the best way for Montenegro to move when it comes to the management of companies owned by the state. Those companies need to work profitably, have good management and employ the best people, competent personnel who can contribute to the success of those companies with their knowledge.
You mentioned the fight against crime and corruption. In Serbia, as the government representatives claim, the fight against the mafia is on. In the past, it was often said that the problem of the mafia and the conflict between clans was transferred from Montenegro to the streets of Belgrade. Did you, looking at that sixth element, consider the information that came from Belgrade? How grounded are they?
Believe me, this is information that is under the jurisdiction of the Police Administration, and I do not want to deal with that information so as not to disturb the professional characteristics of the institution's work with my attitude. Only 15 days ago, the police administration changed personnel through a competition. There were 19 candidates at the aforementioned competition, and we believe that the best personnel solution was chosen and that the new director appointed assistants who can competently answer all the challenges, which are numerous. I hope that good cooperation between the institutions of Serbia and Montenegro will contribute to everything being correct, exact and in favor of justice. What bothers me the most is that lately we have been accusing each other about who came from where. That tells me that we don't have joint action. Crime and corruption cannot be acted upon by any country, not even by any other state, so it is necessary to find ways to overcome it in favor of that essential fact - that all citizens are safe.
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