Shutting down the National Security Agency (NSA) in its current form is the best way to bring people into the secret service who will undergo a new and rigorous vetting process based on the principles followed by services in democratic countries.
This was told to "Vijesti" by the president of the Atlantic Alliance of Montenegro and former head of the ANB, Savo Kentera.
In an interview conducted via email, he said, among other things, that in the current geopolitical circumstances, caused by the change in the relationship of the United States of America (USA) towards Europe, Montenegro should look at its own interests - membership in the European Union (EU), but at the same time it must not forget "who our strategic partner is and who was with us when Montenegro needed it most."
"And that is exactly the USA," Kentera said.
A year ago, you hinted at the possibility of political (party) engagement, saying that you definitely had to “do something” and that you could no longer “sit on the sidelines and watch what was happening.” Why didn't you get involved, but instead returned to the helm of the Atlantic Alliance?
I realized that this is a time of populism, which has completely overwhelmed the domestic political scene and left no room for a serious vision of Montenegro as a state. In order to be a statesman and a leader who wants to achieve his vision, one cannot expect to be popular and loved by everyone.
The state approach also implies a series of unpopular measures that are necessary for the prosperity of the state and society. Politics is not about selling ice cream so that everyone will love you. Populism and leadership are antipodes.
At this moment, I believe that I can make the greatest contribution through the Atlantic Alliance, which reflects my decision to stick to my profession and to help where possible through my profession.
How do you view the current political situation in Montenegro and the roles of the government and the opposition in it?
The policy of the ruling majority is to join the EU, and that is the main goal. On the other hand, the motives of individual parties of that majority for joining the EU are questionable. In addition, we do not have an opposition that thinks strategically and that can adequately respond to the populist moves of the ruling majority. Essentially, the most important thing is to join the EU in 2028, and I believe that this should remain a priority for both the government and the opposition, regardless of their real motives.
Otherwise, we will miss the unique opportunity that is being offered to us not only because of us, but also because of geopolitical circumstances. We will not have a second chance. We will remain like Georgia or Ukraine, which opens up space for other players to occupy this part of the Balkans and for Montenegro to remain in the wind instead of being rooted in the European community where no one will question its orientation and values.
For this, we need to endure everything that is happening on the political scene, which will not be easy at all, and support the actors who are working on Montenegro becoming a member of the EU. Both the government and the opposition will therefore always have a constructive partner in the Atlantic Alliance as long as they want to see Montenegro there and as long as they share the values that the Atlantic Alliance has stood for for the last 20 years.
You claim that the biggest mistake of the three-decade rule of the Democratic Party of Socialists (DPS) was that they “swept the most sensitive issues under the carpet,” and you state that the new authorities are doing the same. What are the “most sensitive issues” you are talking about, and how do you think they should be resolved?
There are several such topics, and I was primarily thinking of those related to national and cultural identity, economic development and strategy, healthcare, education, infrastructure. There was no clear vision, no plans and strategies for how to achieve that vision, and there was not, and still is not, enough knowledge to work on the development of all these issues.
The lack of knowledge and vision has been replaced by populism, which works best not on integration, but on division. Thus, we have created a society divided by many segments, the most pronounced of which are divisions along national lines. Instead of dividing ourselves over how to reach the goal and realize the vision, we are dealing with issues that Europe dealt with at the end of the Middle Ages.
How do you assess the situation in the security sector, and have you changed the position you expressed in March last year - that it has never been worse?
I have not changed that position. I still see huge shortcomings in the security sector, primarily in the fact that we do not have a functional system. We have fragments that work, but the whole does not work because it is not well connected. A radical reform of the entire security sector is necessary, and I am referring to the police and the ANB.
First of all, complete depoliticization is needed. It is normal for political figures to hold ministerial positions, but it is neither normal nor good for people to be appointed “in depth” solely on the basis of political affiliation. And here we see that nothing has fundamentally changed. However, this situation is not only in the security sector, but also in all other segments of society, and this is the biggest problem that needs to be addressed.
Although you claim that the collapse of the security sector did not begin with the fall of DPS in 2020 and the arrival of new authorities, why did you not criticize the situation in that sector so harshly earlier, when its top brass included people who are now suspected of serious crimes?
Here, unfortunately, things are forgotten very quickly, only what was said today or a few days ago is remembered. Fortunately, there is institutional memory in the Atlantic Alliance, so it is very well known that our position has not changed in 20 years and that we have always supported everyone who works in the interests of the state of Montenegro and its European and transatlantic path. I criticized then, as I still criticize today and as I will always criticize anyone who works against the interests of the state of Montenegro.
You were at the head of the ANB for five months, from May to October 2022. Is the ANB a professional secret service or a service of those in power?
The task of every service, including the ANB, is to inform political decision-makers of the real situation and essential problems in society. To warn them of what could happen, and when it becomes known that anyone, even the decision-makers themselves, is working against the interests of the state, to point this out and act in cooperation with the prosecutor's office to protect the state's interests.
That's why I took on the job, believing that I could turn the agency into a serious, professional, and modern service. The moment I achieved concrete results based on these principles, I was fired.
Are there people in the ANB who you suspect/know work or have worked for other secret services, or people who have worked/are working for organized crime groups, bearing in mind that some former Agency employees are suspected of belonging to criminal organizations and serious crimes? If there are or were there, who do these people work/have worked for, and what have you done to counter this?
If there were grounds for suspicion that someone was working in the interests of another service or organized crime, those suspicions were checked and if confirmed, those persons were removed from the Agency. Those who came to that position after me were aware of everything, and what they did with that information is a question for them.
In any case, during my mandate, for the first time since the declaration of independence of Montenegro, a certain number of people were under secret surveillance due to suspicions that they worked for other services or were connected to OKG (organized crime groups).
Has anyone been dismissed from the ANB on that basis?
When suspicions were indisputably confirmed, adequate measures were taken and such individuals were removed from service.
How should the ANB be reformed, and do you think that some kind of vetting should be implemented in the secret service as well?
There are several models for reforming the service. Even before I took over as head of the ANB, I personally advocated that the Agency in its current form be closed down. I still think that this is the best way to bring new people into the service who will undergo a new and rigorous vetting process based on the principles used by services in democratic countries. However, I did not have support for this, and for these reasons this reform was not implemented.
Also, a prerequisite for reform is the legal framework that positions the ANB and gives it the authority to engage in intelligence and security activities in the same way as other countries in the world. The current amendment to the ANB law only touched on the essence of what the Agency should do, but still does not give it the ability to engage in that work properly.
To illustrate this to the public: the perception is that the ANB is engaged in the same activities as the CIA, MI6, and SVR, and in fact the ANB is engaged in one percent of these activities. Ninety-nine percent of the work that the ANB does is similar to that done by the FBI, MI5, and FSB. Accordingly, you cannot expect results from the Agency if it does not have adequate legal authority.
Ultimately, I believe that the ANB should be led by professionals who are willing to defend the principles and values that we stand for as a country. Those principles have a price, and if we are not willing to pay it, we should not accept certain positions. I was willing to pay that price, defending those principles and values, and I would do it again.
Do you support the idea of some political actors about opening the secret service files?
I do not support it. Montenegro is a small community and there is no need to initiate something that would open many wounds and bring nothing good. It is known who did what in Montenegro, but if it were made public and official, who was involved in what and how deep it goes, it would be devastating for individuals, families and society. We need to put an end to it, turn to the future and think about how some things should no longer be done the way they were done.
On what basis do you claim that you were removed from the head of the ANB "at the behest of the Russian ambassador to Montenegro", and why have you not publicly presented evidence of this?
It is not the Agency that presents evidence, nor am I the one who should present it. Different institutions have different responsibilities – the Agency collects information, the prosecution collects evidence.
But since you ask me, that was clear from all the information we had at that moment, and that claim is based on the fact that just before my dismissal, we conducted an operation to stop Russian influence through Serbian proxies in Montenegro. And that was just the tip of the iceberg, the beginning of a major operation.
In addition, it was only in Russia's interest to have me removed, the Russian ambassador was the only person who came out publicly after that action and said that we would pay for what we had done. That is what happened.
After all, I was dismissed at a time when recognition for the Agency's work came from the highest international addresses - from the NATO Secretary General, the British Foreign Secretary, many other EU officials, the USA... The only two addresses from which recognition did not come were Russia and the Government of Montenegro.
Do you find it objectionable that the position of Director of the National Security Agency (ANB) is held by a man, Mr. Ivica Janović, who, a month and a half before his appointment to the position, held, in addition to Montenegrin, also Croatian citizenship? Is this a reason to question his integrity in that position?
I see nothing objectionable in the fact that he had the citizenship of another country, which, like Montenegro, is a member of NATO and also a member of the EU. I also know directors of services from EU countries who even had dual citizenships while performing their functions, so if this is not a problem for their countries, I do not see why it should be for us. We here often forget that we are part of a collective security system and that loyalty and integrity are not proven and shown with a piece of paper, but with other things. I know Mr. Janović as an honest and honorable man and I believe that he should be given a chance to do his job in the interest of Montenegro.
Do you think he has the qualifications and experience to perform this job, considering that he did not work in the security sector and that Prime Minister Mr. Milojko Spajić claims that he was recommended for the position because he worked as a seaman in a shipping company whose employees smuggled drugs?
The nature of the ANB is such that there is no room for former or current directors to comment on each other's work or qualifications. If they have something to share, they should do so one-on-one. I believe that all directors met the requirements prescribed by law.
What could the change in relations towards Europe, made by the United States led by Mr. Donald Trump, produce in Europe, and what in the Balkans and in Montenegro?
Certain issues raised by Trump, such as the UN, NATO and the relationship with the EU, deserve special attention, and I must emphasize that I have a very similar position on these issues. For many years, we have been witnessing the dysfunctionality of the UN in which it is possible for one country, whatever its name, which does not inherit democratic principles, to veto and block the largest and most developed democratic countries from implementing certain decisions. One solution that can overcome this problem is to increase the number of permanent members of the Security Council and make decisions by a two-thirds majority so that no one member would be able to block decisions important for the entire world as an individual member.
Europe must also finally consolidate itself, improve its decision-making, perhaps along the same lines as I mentioned. It is crucial that European leaders do not fall for provocative messages. As much as Europe needs America, Europe needs America. No country, no matter how strong and powerful, can survive and fight the challenges of the 21st century alone. That is why alliances are key. We may very well be witnessing the creation of a new world order.
Do you think that, due to Trump's decisions, the survival of NATO is in question? Former NATO Supreme Commander for Europe, Mr. James Stavridis, claims that the Alliance may be living its last days...
I do not believe that, and I sincerely hope that it will not happen because NATO is equally important to Europe and America. The justification for its existence has been questioned several times since the Alliance was founded, but NATO has emerged stronger from all these situations. Too much attention is being focused on President Trump here, and I would like to point out that the key lies in the American system, which I believe will, as always, be a corrective factor. Individuals can leave their mark, more or less mark an era, but it is the system that makes the United States strong.
Finally, President Trump is rightly demanding that NATO member states spend more on defense, so that America does not bear the brunt of the burden. That is why I believe that NATO will once again emerge stronger than it has been.
How should Podgorica position itself in light of new geopolitical circumstances?
Montenegro should look after its own interests, which is currently EU membership. At the same time, we must not forget who our strategic partner is and who was with us when Montenegro needed it most, and that is the USA. Therefore, in such a constellation of relations, it is very important to maintain the best possible relations with the USA, without jeopardizing our European path. I have no doubt that the USA will continue to firmly advocate for the stability of this region, strongly opposing all those who want to violate the integrity of the Western Balkans.
A stable and strong Russia is a predictable Russia.
What will be the consequences of Trump's U-turn on Ukraine?
Trump wants the war in Ukraine to finally end, and that is something that is good for Ukraine itself, the EU, but also for the US and Russia, and he will do everything to make it happen. This goal is in line with his pragmatic approach to international relations, which emphasizes stability and reducing global tensions. In this way, the EU would have the opportunity to consolidate its influence in the Balkans and Eastern Europe, while the US would reduce the military and economic costs of the war, and could also improve relations with key European allies and Russia.
I believe it is important to have a stable and strong Russia, because that means a predictable Russia, which is of great importance for all parties. Russia, as a constructive partner, can contribute to global stability, especially in cooperation with NATO, the EU and the USA. We should not forget that Russia was a credible member of NATO's Partnership for Peace program, and that there were significant areas of cooperation in the fight against organized crime, terrorism and other global threats.
Trump has made it clear that, while he is committed to ending the conflict, he will not make major concessions to Russia for the sake of peace, given the long-term geopolitical competition between the West and Russia. European allies must be careful in this process, as too hasty compromises could jeopardize their long-term strategic goals. While the goal of stability is shared by all parties, I would not speak of dramatic shifts in foreign policy.
It's easiest for Đukanović to blame others for his mistakes
Do you agree with the assessment of the former head of state and honorary president of the DPS, Mr. Milo Đukanović, that the State Department's policy enabled the emergence of the "Serbian world"?
It is easiest to blame others for one's mistakes. The "Serbian world" did not emerge in 2020, it has much deeper roots. This strategy has been implemented in the region for the past few decades. The State Department did not bring hundreds of priests from Republika Srpska and Serbia to Montenegro. Nor did it create a situation in which crime is stronger than the state and in which these criminals, partly in the interests of the "Serbian world", roam Montenegro. It was not the State Department, but our country that should have built institutions resistant to external malign influence. If that had been done, we would not be talking about the "Serbian world" in Montenegro today.
NATO Youth Summit on April 25th and 26th in Budva
Head of State Mr. Jakov Milatović recently announced that Montenegro will host the NATO Youth Summit this year, and that the organization of the event comes as a result of discussions that he and Prime Minister Mr. Milojko Spajić had with the leaders of the Alliance. What is the role of the Atlantic Alliance in the organization of the event?
The Atlantic Alliance of Montenegro is NATO's institutional partner in organizing the Summit, which will be held this year on 25 and 26 April in Budva. We are honored to be the hosts and organizers of this event and to welcome over a thousand participants from all over the world - state officials, NATO representatives, international experts and young leaders. President Milatović, through his personal efforts and discussions with Secretary General (Marko) Rutte, contributed to the Summit being held in Montenegro this year, and we are very grateful to him for that. I am convinced that through joint efforts, and I believe with the support of Prime Minister Spajić, we will show that Montenegro can justifiably host such a prestigious event.
Bonus video:
