INTERVIEW Živković: There is no stability without cooperation between Montenegrins and Serbs

Without overcoming the Montenegrin-Serbian gap, Montenegro cannot achieve full political, social and economic stability.

This was told to "Vijesti" by the president of the Democratic Party of Socialists (DPS). Danijel Zivkovic, saying that his party deeply believes that the time has come to solve this problem.

In an interview conducted via email, he stated that DPS demonstrated this using the example of Budva and cooperation with Nikola Jovanović, who he says is not under the influence of official Belgrade.

"Serbs in Montenegro are not a diaspora... Unfortunately, for years these voters have only had as an option political offers that are under the control of official Belgrade and that implement the policy of Greater Serbian nationalism... I believe that such a constellation is producing a long-lasting, even decades-long, political crisis. And only by breaking that circle, with state-responsible leaders of the Serbian national sign who will be guided by the state interests of Montenegro, will we be able to count on a more serious step forward...", said Živković.

DPS MPs who were heads of parliamentary committees recently resigned from their positions, and the deputy speaker of parliament from your party also left his “armchair”. This was done after the Parliament adopted the controversial regulations on the ANB and internal affairs. Along with the resignations, DPS also announced that it would not participate in the work of the Electoral Reform Committee (if it is re-formed). What do you want to achieve with these moves, why do you think you can effectively oppose the ruling majority in this way, and are you ready for radicalization - boycott of parliament, protests, etc., or are you just threatening to do so? If not - why, if yes - when will you do it?

Although in opposition, DPS has made a key contribution to all important and challenging processes for Montenegrin society in this parliamentary session - we initiated an agreement on the population census, voted on the so-called IBAR laws, actively worked on and led to the adoption of electoral reform, and voted for all laws with the "blue flag".

We did all this guided by the key national interest, which is also one of the most important goals of our political program - which is Montenegro's earliest possible membership in the EU.

The adoption of the aforementioned scandalous laws was the last straw, because the current government wants to introduce a police state and - in order to stay in power - abuse the security sector against its own citizens. In such a situation we find ourselves in, we have an obligation to show that the situation is not normal, that the regime, in anticipation of the elections, has set out to create a repressive apparatus that will systematically intimidate citizens and limit their rights and freedoms. All this is being done in order to preserve power, at all costs.

By withdrawing from the above positions, we have sent a message that we do not want to participate in the simulation of democracy under the pretext of EU integration, which is based on the use of a repressive apparatus and intimidation of citizens. It is our duty to use all possible means, including such drastic political moves, to alert the public, both domestic and foreign, that Montenegro, under the guise of European integration, is turning into a repressive state of fear, self-censorship and restrictions on the rights and freedoms of citizens. As for further moves, it is too early to talk about them at this point.

From the ranks of the DPS, it has been repeatedly heard that you will be the ones who will bring Montenegro into the EU, because, as you claim, you will be part of the government after the 2027 elections. Although the weaknesses and bad moves of the government are more than visible, some analysts claim that if there are no radical changes in their strategy, the opposition parties will be in "eternal opposition" after the elections. How do you view the criticism of people who are (were) close to the DPS - that you have no plan to seriously oppose the government, but are just waiting for the opportunity to "trade" and become part of it?

Everything that DPS does is calculated with the aim of achieving state interests. As I said, the priority state interest, and also the key goal of our political program, is to complete the European integration process as soon as possible. That is why we have very often - even to the detriment of our own rating - been obliged to pass over numerous moves by the current government that were calculated to cause crisis and instability. So, it was not a matter of any calculation, but of wisdom to achieve long-term state interests from the position of the opposition. And I believe that with such an approach we have avoided numerous traps of a part of the parliamentary majority who wanted to provoke instability at all costs and thereby create a blockade of the European path. Because, I think that is clear, this regime is only interested in staying in power at all costs. European integration is a side issue that they most often abuse.

I would like to remind you - DPS, after just one year since August 30, 2020, returned to power through minority support for the Government. Dritan Abazović. I remind you that we left that Government in just 100 days and moved into opposition due to the adoption of the Basic Agreement (with the Serbian Orthodox Church) which was deeply harmful to state interests. Therefore, the comments that our actions are calculated to be part of the government at all costs and as soon as possible are unfounded. Of course, there is always room for criticism, especially if it is based on reality and takes into account real political circumstances - then it encourages us to work more responsibly and with better quality.

DPS MP Ms. Aleksandra Vuković Kuč recently stated that you had “various attractive offers”, but that DPS is not interested in them “if it is not a package for the stabilization and secure European integration of Montenegro”. Who, specifically, sent you those offers, when, why and what exactly did they refer to? Did such offers come from PES, were there any discussions about it with someone from that party, if so - when and with whom?

It would not be serious for me to speak publicly about the details and interlocutors from the conversations on these topics. It would not be fair to the actors of those meetings. However, we can talk about it at the level of the phenomenon, and I will be very direct - yes, there were such conversations and the topics were political challenges and problems created by political instability.

However, most of these discussions were based on the logic on which this parliamentary majority is based, which implies an agreement on functions, but without an essential vision of partnership around strategic and programmatic agreement that should give birth to a serious and stable state government. We did not want to participate in this because we are not inclined to be actors in government for the sake of a few functions without determining the long-term development planning of Montenegro. Populism is not our specialty, nor is petty trading - we leave that to this majority, which will soon move to the opposition benches because of such behavior.

This is an additional response to the criticisms you asked me about in the previous question: we are not interested in power at any cost. We are interested in a serious agreement that would give birth to a mature and state-responsible government, and I believe that will happen after the next parliamentary elections.

What will be the DPS strategy for next year's parliamentary elections? In the 2023 elections, you also talked about increasing salaries and pensions, which was a forced move due to the way PES acted in the campaign. Will economic or identity issues - or both - be your dominant focus in the run-up to the national and general local elections next year, or something else?

I believe that what DPS recommends most is the seriousness and stability of our politics, which as such is significantly ahead of what we currently have on the scene. The time for political changes has passed, and now, six years after the change of government, I believe that citizens have objectified the picture and clearly see the difference in seriousness between the government until 2020 and all that we have after that - frivolous and irresponsible people who have only one, narrow political interest: to stay in their seats as long as possible.

This is supported by the latest March survey (Spektrum Analitika), according to which the DPS rating is 28,1 percent. Our strategy is clear - you have seen that we have already started a campaign of visits to all municipalities in Montenegro. We will talk to every citizen who wants to talk about the current political situation and how to lead Montenegro out of the political crisis.

As for the campaign itself, we will certainly offer a comprehensive program that will provide an answer to the chaotic situation in the country at all levels - from the poor state of public finances and galloping inflation, through the collapsed public health system, to the complete chaos in the security sector. We will also address the investment environment, because the previous six years have led to a complete halt in all investments and stagnation of development. But, we will have the opportunity to talk about the details in the coming period.

At the end of last year, DPS supported the adoption of the Budva budget, which included a donation of one million euros for the construction of a Serbian Orthodox Church temple in that city. That decision was not approved by a part of the public close to DPS, and you justified it by saying that you “believe in the partnership that has begun in Budva” (with Mr. Nikola Jovanović). On what basis does DPS claim that Mr. Jovanović can help it “change the structure of the political scene at the state level as well”? How much support at the state level do you think Mr. Jovanović can count on?

We are aware that the vote on this year's budget has aroused suspicion among a section of the public, who have rightly asked the question - has the DPS changed course? To be brief and clear - no.

DPS does not agree with a part of the budget that, in our opinion, is excessively generous towards one religious community, because we believe that these are neither the competences of local self-government, nor the issues that it should deal with. We believe that this money could have been better spent - for the specific needs of citizens in the form of transport, education or health infrastructure.

However, in December we were not faced with the question of whether we would vote for the budget, but with the question of whether it was worth destroying the partnership we had started with Nikola Jovanović - the leader of the Serbian national symbol, who was the first in the last few decades to show resistance to the political-intelligence-criminal influence of official Belgrade and from whom, for the first time when it comes to that pole of the political scene, we can openly hear that Montenegro is his home? We thought it was not.

We are aware that it is necessary to overcome the long-standing political crisis and achieve political stability. The path to achieving this goal is to form a coalition that will be able to unite all entities that will, for a start, say that Montenegro is their home state and that respect its independence and autonomy.

The decision in Budva - and further cooperation at the state level - is not a matter of electoral arithmetic, but of political essence. We deeply believe that the time has come to overcome the Montenegrin-Serbian gap that historically shackles Montenegro and prevents it from achieving full political, social and economic stability. However, for such a thing to happen, it is necessary to have leaders of the Serbian national character who are resistant to the influence of official Belgrade and who want to build Montenegro as their home, and not to be complicit in the project by which Serbs in Montenegro want to present themselves as the diaspora of Serbia. Stopping this plan, which would mean the permanent dysfunctionality of Montenegro, is the task of every state-responsible policy. Nikola Jovanović has shown the capacity to resist this plan on the example of Budva, and that is precisely why we have made the decision to support the budget - not only because we believe in the partnership that has been initiated, but because we believe in the goal of this idea at the state level as well.

The example of relations in Budva has shown that we can function without constant challenges in the form of forced administrations or blockades of parliament, which was the case in previous years. Now this model needs to be replicated at the state level.

If Mr. Jovanović holds the same ideological positions as the former DF leaders Mr. Andrija Mandić and Mr. Milan Knežević, why would voters turn their backs on them and vote for Mr. Jovanović?

I repeat what I said in response to the previous question - the statement you quoted refers to an essential political vision, not electoral arithmetic. In Montenegro, when we look at the results of the censuses from 2003, 2011 and 2023, an average of 30 percent of citizens identify as Serbs.

The clear intention of official Belgrade is to present citizens who declare themselves as Serbs as the Serbian diaspora in Montenegro, which would lead to ethno-federalization and permanent dysfunctionality of the system, which in the end should raise the question - what do we need such a state for? Serbs in Montenegro are not a diaspora, and as you saw in a recent survey (Spektrum Analitika) - 76,7 percent of citizens who declare themselves as Serbs consider Montenegro their home state. Unfortunately, for years these voters have only had as an option political offers that are under the control of official Belgrade and that implement a policy of Greater Serbian nationalism that essentially denies Montenegro. I believe that such a constellation is producing a long-lasting, even decades-long, political crisis. And only by breaking that circle, with state-responsible leaders of the Serbian national sign who will be guided by the state interests of Montenegro, will we be able to count on a more serious step forward when it comes to realizing the overall state potential.

Given that the DPS claims that its principles are above all else, do you, for example, mind that Mr. Jovanović was at a protest in front of the Government two years ago because of the state's support for the UN resolution on the Srebrenica genocide? Or that for years he has been paying homage to the "Serbian liberators of Budva" on the walls of the Old Town by laying wreaths?

I believe that in my answer to the previous two questions I have more than clearly explained the DPS's attitude towards Nikola Jovanović and the policies he is implementing. As for the Srebrenica issue itself, it is not a political, but a civilizational issue. Genocide occurred in Srebrenica and there is no controversy about that.

The Honorary President of the DPS, Mr. Milo Đukanović, said in March 2023, on the eve of the presidential elections, that he would lead a “dialogue on reconciliation” with the DF, and that this political alliance and Mr. Mandić were not an unacceptable partner for him. Given that the DPS claims that Mr. Mandić is the leader of the parliamentary majority, which you criticize daily - under what conditions would Mr. Mandić and the DF parties be acceptable to you as partners? Would you be ready to lead a “dialogue on reconciliation” with Mr. Mandić? If yes/no, why?

Mr. Đukanović's statement referred to partnership in dialogue, not political cooperation. DPS accepts all pro-European political entities that have no dilemma about where their home is and who, on a civic concept and anti-fascist basis, are ready to build the future of Montenegro. Mr. Andrija Mandić, despite the continuous political support he has received for decades, has never found the strength to make such a step forward. Instead, he has always agreed to be a cog in the system of Greater Serbian nationalism and to serve official Belgrade as a knife in the belly of Montenegro. Partnership implies a common vision and plan, and our visions and plans and Mr. Mandić's plans are obviously different. Mandić celebrates the Podgorica Assembly and the disappearance of Montenegro, he wants us to forget our anti-fascist tradition, and he seeks to have a state for the people instead of a civic one. From the above differences it is clear that, as long as he holds these positions, we cannot be partners in government.

If there were any donations from Aco Đukanović to DPS, they are in the reports.

Is Mr. Aco Đukanović, the detained brother of Mr. Milo Đukanović, a member of the DPS? To your knowledge, has he financially - or in any other way - assisted the DPS? If so, when and how?

According to the latest membership re-registration, Aco Đukanović is not a member of DPS. Also, since I have been at the helm of the party, he has not financially supported the work of the party. It goes without saying, however, that Mr. Đukanović has been an active supporter of the policy that his own brother personified for almost three decades, not only in recent years, but throughout his life. If there were any donations earlier, they are certainly properly recorded in our reports that are published publicly and anyone can check who, over a period of several decades, was a donor to DPS.

The precision of our operations is also evidenced by the fact that we received a double positive opinion for two years in a row without a single recommendation from the State Audit Institution.

We are not comfortable with the verdict against Medenica.

How do you view the (first instance) verdict against the former long-time head of the judiciary from the time of the DPS government, Ms. Vesna Medenica, who was sentenced to 11 years and nine months in prison for multiple criminal offenses? Does the DPS feel responsible that a person from its time in power has been convicted of unlawful influence, accepting bribes, and influencing court decisions?

I see it, just as you said, as a first-instance verdict that is far from final. I also see it as a verdict that was issued in the environment of the hunt for high-ranking officials of the previous government, in which the judiciary - both the prosecution and the judiciary - acts in accordance with public expectations and under strong media-political pressure to which it is exposed on a daily basis, which is additionally fueled by the need for urgent verdicts for high-level corruption in anticipation of the closure of chapters 23 and 24. I would say, in a broader context, that the verdict was actually intended to judge the time of one government.

I would add that today we have a systemic problem in the judiciary that acts in accordance with public expectations, whose opinion is shaped by media and political pressure, while positions on guilt are made in advance even though the proceedings are ongoing.

However, let me be completely clear: yes, we will feel objective responsibility for this entire case if there is a final verdict for Ms. Medenica. Regardless of the fact that she was not appointed to the position by the DPS, but by the Judicial Council due to the constitutional amendments of 2013, we do not ignore the fact that this is a person who held the highest positions in the judiciary during the time of our government. Unlike our political competitors, we do not hide in corners when something bad or negative happens.

Therefore, I repeat: we feel a responsibility and it is certainly not pleasant. However, we urge the public to refrain from commenting until the verdict becomes final.

We do not give up on the belief that the Montenegrin Orthodox Church should be restored.

At its 2019 congress, the DPS adopted a program in which it stated that it would advocate for the restoration of the Montenegrin Orthodox Church. However, the program you adopted at last year's congress emphasizes the defense of the civil character of the state and warns against attempts at "ethnofederalization," while not mentioning the church. Has the DPS given up on the idea of ​​restoring the Montenegrin Orthodox Church? If so/if not, why?

DPS has never expressed the ambition to form a church as a political party - as was presented by the malicious public ahead of the 2020 elections. We pointed out then, as we do today, to the indisputable historical facts and the well-founded right to the restoration of the autocephaly of the Montenegrin Orthodox Church. These are historical facts that are not disputed - nor is it possible to do so - even by representatives of the current government. We do not give up on that belief, founded, I repeat, on historical facts - to this day.