"An artist can be a threat to repressive political systems if his message is powerful and dangerous," Montenegrin director and columnist Danilo Marunović, who was expelled from Serbia on June 27, tells Radio Free Europe.
The formal reason given was his critical attitude towards the political situation in Serbia, expressed through columns he publishes in Montenegro.
"I would never engage with Serbia to that extent if that regime were not directly responsible for denying the freedoms that Montenegrins in this country should have."
He went to Belgrade for the performance of the play "Gospoda Glembajevi" at the National Theatre, which he directed.
Members of the Serbian Security and Intelligence Agency (BIA) took him from his hotel room for a twelve-hour interrogation.
He was banned from entering Serbia for a year and escorted to the border.
Marunović believes that the entire process is a staged message and an attempt to intimidate and "discipline" critics.
"It's a carefully orchestrated gesture and a demonstration exercise for all freethinkers," he tells RFE/RL.
In the interview, he talks about expulsion, pressure on artists, and plans to fight for freedom of speech.
Can you describe to us what it was like when you were arrested? Did they immediately explain the reasons to you?
"The arrest was carried out in a stereotypical manner - black coats, coming for dissenters in totalitarian environments.
They didn't immediately tell me the reasons why I was being detained. At the door of my hotel room, I was told that they were members of the Security and Intelligence Agency and that I had to go with them.
They immediately took my phone away.
I managed to quickly, briefly, send a message that I had been taken away. From that moment until I was delivered to the Macedonian border, I had no access to a phone or communication with the outside world.
What was the hearing like and how would you rate the treatment you received during that process?
What stood out to me was that they were extremely informed about my work. They knew all my texts, the course of my career and that of my family, as well as other people from public life in Montenegro.
The relationship was, I would say, as fair as it can be when your freedom is taken away and basic human rights are denied, without a justifiable reason.
I asked them if they were aware of the impression this leaves on Serbia, a country that aspires to be part of the European Union, and if they were aware that this is an example of repression against individuals and freedom of thought.
However, it quickly became clear to me that the operation was intended to serve as a public message. Namely, during my stay with them, they constantly monitored how the media reported on my arrest, and it seems to me that this was also their goal.
Is the column the reason for the arrest?
I don't think so. The column is just an excuse. I'm trying all the time to understand the underlying reason why I was chosen.
I am getting closer to the conclusion that this is connected to the way I react to the regime in Belgrade and my relationship with Montenegro, that is, the way I try to constantly maintain a connection with universal values.
In doing so, I try to ensure that it never turns into a ghettoized story, but remains inclusive, connected to healthy forces in the region, including in Belgrade itself.
It's a narrative they have no answer to, and that's precisely why they consider my actions dangerous.
And that evening, that theory proved to be correct.
At the National Theater, the national theater of the state under the control of that regime, with the crown institution of culture, the play Mr. Glembayev, directed by an alleged enemy of the state, was performed that night.
Those people in that theater did not allow the new manager, Dragoslav Bokan, commander of the White Eagles, to enter that house, and they invited guests from the enemy of the state, his play, and the ensemble behind it.
That evening, the theater was the healthiest civic idea of Serbia, an idea that was not mythomania and nationalism. The theater was an island of rebellion, a lighthouse where what should not have happened happened - the detonation of a new idea.
We know that whenever these ideas were broadcast from Montenegro, they resulted in major political changes in the Balkans, such as the fall of Slobodan Milošević, a turn towards the West, the independence of Montenegro, the emancipation of the region, and the like.
How much did the gesture of your colleagues and the fact that the play was performed mean to you?
The gesture of my colleagues was touching. Some of them were waiting for me in front of the hotel when they took me away, and then I heard that they were having a dilemma – whether to play or not.
I said: Sure, play, absolutely.
That kind of defiance, that stubbornness, that creative whim that awakened in them, is precious in a theatrical sense, and that's why they put on the best performance of Glembayev since the premiere. That was a great victory for all of us.
On the other hand, different comments came from Podgorica and Montenegro from a part of the public, which, in my opinion, were unjustified, sometimes even ugly.
The criticism was that we were playing into the hands of the occupier, which is crazy. We need to be made aware that Vučić is not the same as Serbia, and that in our fight for the survival of the state and its values, we must not fight as anti-Serbs.
We are anti-fascists and that is our basic civilizational, national and civic code.
Have you received support from Montenegrin officials? Has anyone from our country contacted you?
I was in the secret service premises all day. My father was at the Montenegrin Embassy and received informal calls. It was not something that could be ignored.
However, the only state institution that officially reacted was the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
Other institutions remained silent or made relativizing comments that did not side with their artist, but rather allowed the Serbian secret service to carry out such a gesture.
Such statements came from the Ministry of Culture, which disappointed and hurt me.
Was that another blow?
I experienced that as the only blow, actually. It's not a problem that a repressive system of a country is arresting me. It's confirmation that what I'm doing is relevant, that it has an impact and reaches key audiences.
An influence that perhaps I wasn't even aware of.
But, if there is no elementary support based on civilized respect for individual rights, if freedom of speech is not ensured, if key institutions do not support, then we cannot speak of a state that has adopted Western principles, that is democratic and safe for individuals.
Do you think that cases like this cause a self-censorship effect in other artists and public figures?
Absolutely. The gesture that was carried out, the direction and the style of that gesture are aimed at establishing a reign of terror. I am sure that many will be discouraged from expressing their opinions in full capacity.
However, there are those for whom it can be an additional motivation. I am one of them.
I expect those brave, proven fighters to continue to be stronger. And those who are not, to continue not to be.
What would you say to colleagues who want to act like you, but are afraid of the consequences?
The decision to be an artist and serve art means going through a space where there is no compromise with the basic principles of civilization.
There are no calculations here. You go all the way or you don't go at all.
"I was disappointed that there was no public support or comment on what happened from actors' associations or cultural institutions.
This speaks to the atmosphere of fear in the country and the underdeveloped idea of freedom in the contemporary cultural scene.
How devastating is that?
Exceptional. That is one of the greatest criteria of a society's maturity. Even in great dictatorships, art flourishes. Because art is always inspired by repression. Art is a reaction to the restriction of freedom.
If this does not happen, it is a sign of serious immaturity of society in all aspects – cultural, economic, civic and others.
Can an artist be "expelled"?
His work is what makes an artist dangerous for political systems. A message, if it is good, can be dangerous and powerful. Especially today, in the time of spectacle and the post-information revolution. In the time when the word can reach any address.
That's why the BIA decided to bring me in and try to compromise me in that way, because they consider my messages dangerous.
Are you planning any legal reaction to this decision?
I will look into this in the coming period, to see in what ways my human rights have been violated. I received a brief briefing on the subject. I will check with people who can provide me with proper assistance in that regard.
To be honest, that's not the way I want to deal with a country.
I prefer this way of my own. It is a critical attitude and reflection on the lack of freedom in that area and how it reflects on Montenegro.
I would never deal with Serbia to such an extent if that regime were not directly responsible for denying all the freedoms that Montenegrins in this country should have today.
We are second-class citizens in this country, disenfranchised, humiliated, persecuted, dismissed.
And from that persecution, a frustration is born. It turns into an amorphous mass of critics that is not unified, that criticizes more within its own movement than focusing its actions on problematic points.
Bonus video:
