Interview with psychologist Ana Mirković: It's no joke if it hurts

Crnogorski Telekom's "It Hurts Me So Much" campaign, launched in early August against hate speech in the digital space, raised a question that concerns everyone who participates in online communication: How do we react when we see insults, humiliation, or attacks on another person, and how often do we choose to just scroll on?

First insights from the campaign show that the public is not indifferent – ​​on the contrary, there is a clear need for a digital space in which there is less hatred, intolerance and negativity, and more responsibility and mutual respect.

More than 2,7 thousand people participated in the online vote, and nine out of ten said they care about the kind of space we are creating together on the internet. Analysis of reactions to campaign posts also showed that offensive and toxic comments were present, but that they did not take over the conversation or gather wider support.

The campaign is now entering a new phase and the conversation is moving from the digital space to among high school students.

In cooperation with the Ministry of Education, Science and Innovation, from October 5th, for two weeks, workshops dedicated to hate speech and digital violence will be organized in schools in Bar, Podgorica, Nikšić and Berane. and ways in which young people can recognize the problem, react and support each other. The first week they will work with psychologists, while in the second week they will cover the topic through video production workshops.

Before the start of the workshops, with the psychologist Anom Mirkovic We talked about adolescents and their particular sensitivity to what is said and written about them in the digital space.

Why do observers often fail to react? Where does the joke end and the violence begin? How to provide support to young people – without judgment and prohibitions?

These are some of the questions we discussed, trying to understand not only the consequences of digital violence, but also what we can do before words leave a mark.

No one is immune to hate speech and digital violence, but adolescents are a particularly vulnerable group. What is specific to this age group and why can such experiences particularly affect them?

Adolescence is a very specific period of development in itself. A young person is then in the phase of forming their own identity, constantly questioning themselves, searching for themselves and trying to find their place.

During this period, the social environment becomes extremely important. It is much more important what peers will say than what mom and dad will say: "My love, my Apollo, Aphrodite, the most beautiful star in the universe." Parental love and support are important, but at that moment, it often resonates much more strongly with an adolescent when a peer says: "You're stupid," "you're fat," "you're clumsy," or "turn off."

That's why words carry a lot of weight at that age. No matter how hard we try to teach young people that such things don't hurt them, that won't happen in adolescence. Such things hurt them.

But they are less hurt when they have someone to share their feelings and experiences with, when they know they are not alone and will not be rejected because someone else was rude, frustrated, or aggressive.

That's why it's so important to me that we talk about it being okay to be in pain. We shouldn't tell young people that something shouldn't happen to them, but rather help them not go through it alone.

The Crnogorski Telekom campaign "It really hurts" is about the choice between indifference and reaction. Why do we often not react when we see someone being insulted or humiliated online?

When I talk to young people and ask them why they don't react to digital violence, they often tell me: "If I get involved, then everyone will attack me. It will hurt me too, and in the end I neither helped my friend nor can I cope with what is happening to me now."

We need to understand that. It's not always easy to publicly defend someone, especially in the digital space, where the attack can very quickly be redirected to someone else.

That's why my advice is to speak directly to the person who was attacked. It would be best if it was in person, at school, in the yard, at a birthday party. To approach them and say: "I saw what happened. That's really stupid. I know it hurts you."

If we have been through something similar ourselves, we can say, "I've been through it too and I know how you feel."

Reacting doesn't always have to mean publicly confronting the person spreading hate. Sometimes a very important reaction is to let the person who has been hurt know that we saw what happened to them and that they are not alone.

Young people often relativize such comments by saying “it's just a joke” or “everyone talks like that.” How do you recognize the moment when a comment crosses the line and becomes violence?

When young people say, "It's just a joke" or "You don't understand, we joke like that," I would always ask them to show me at least one person who found it funny.

Because if it's a joke, someone has to find it funny. If it's not funny and it hurts someone, then it's not a joke. It's not okay to hurt other people and then hide behind the fact that it was all just humor.

Today, the target is someone we know, maybe someone we don't know, but we never know how the person who is subjected to a huge amount of bad words and hate speech will experience it all and what they will take away from it.

That's why I find this criterion quite simple: if it humiliates and hurts someone, we can hardly justify it with the words "we were just joking."

What specifically should a young person do when they are the target of hate speech or digital violence?

First of all, he needs to talk to someone he trusts. Our elders say that sadness is less and happiness is greater when shared with someone, and I think that really makes sense here.

Young people are often ashamed of what happened to them. They feel frustrated, but also afraid of adults, especially their parents. They are afraid that when they tell them what is happening, the first reaction will be: "Give me your phone", "Turn off social media", "You will not use TikTok anymore".

My appeal to parents is not to do that.

If your child has confided in you about experiencing digital bullying, taking away their phone should not be the answer. That way, we can only send him a message that he was punished for turning to us for help, and the result may be that he decides to keep quiet next time.

It is important for a young person to seek help and talk about what is happening to them.

And what if we see that someone else is the target?

Let's approach him. Let's talk to him. If it's someone close to us, we can touch his hand, hug him, and simply say, "I see what's going on."

If we have had a similar experience, we can say: “I know how you feel, because I was once in a similar situation.” And even if we haven't, we can say that we see what is happening and that we think it is wrong for someone to be bullied in such a way.

We don't always have to have the solution. We don't even have to have the perfect advice. Sometimes the most important thing is for a person to know that there is someone they can share that experience with.

What is the responsibility of parents, schools, institutions, and society? How can they support young people without judging them or further alienating them?

We all have a responsibility. Parents, first and foremost, need to open up digital topics with their children. It's important to not be judgmental and not just act as adults giving lessons and giving advice.

Honestly, we don't have as much advice for them as we think we do. Young people are more digitally literate than we are in many ways. We need to listen to them and not pretend to know everything about their digital world. That really annoys them, but above all, it distances them from us.

I think there is still a big wall of defense against these new topics. Institutions haven't adapted quickly enough, and there is still a misconception that digital violence is not "real" violence.

For young people, it can be very traumatic precisely because the audience is huge and because they can be exposed to the content again and again. The message, photo or comment does not necessarily disappear once the first incident is over. Each time a person comes across that content again, they can relive the same experience.

And schools sometimes think that something is none of their business because it happened on TikTok or Snapchat. But kids spend a large part of their waking day at school. Of course it is. School should be a space where we can talk about it too.

I think that as a society we will only move forward when we all take on our own share of responsibility, instead of passing it on to each other like a ping-pong ball – parents to the school, the school to the family, institutions to a third party.

Is there any encouraging example from the environment or beyond, or a model that we can say is yielding results?

I don't have one system that I can say: they found a solution and we just need to copy them. Changes in the digital space are so fast that we are all currently adapting, even societies with very developed and stable institutions.

We often hear about bans or raising the age limit for using social media. I don't think bans are the right way to go.

I think education and conversation are what we need – to learn together with young people, to listen to their experiences, and to talk to them about how we behave in the digital space.

Forbidding a teenager from a phone and the space where much of their social life takes place can be counterproductive. We need to talk to young people much more, and not just about them.

I think it is through this interaction that we will come to the best solutions.

( Telekom )