In the end, Joksimović emphasized that vaccination along with the implementation of anti-epidemic measures, such as wearing a mask indoors, is key to preserving health.
He said that as an epidemiologist he advocates some variant of "lockdown".
"I could say that we are absolutely ripe for more rigorous measures. The bottom line is that the measures that exist on paper are not bad, if they were implemented properly," concluded Joksimović.
Kavarić said that an urgent change of communication strategy is needed.
"We are in the middle of a fire. It is difficult to pick up a pot that is boiling, you get burned, but the responsibility lies with the one who makes the decisions. There is no way the authorities can complain to others, you have to make decisions, listen to the profession," he said.
Cerović, as a psychologist, said that covid has a negative impact on citizens in multiple ways.
"We did not expect the destruction of the brain's cellular tissue under the effect of covid. Not only in severe cases, you have a loss of nerve cells, a decrease in the density and thickness of some parts of the brain. Whether it is a consequence of acute stress, a viral infection, these are complex things... what what we know, on an organic and psychological-functional level, is that we have negative consequences of covid and we hope that this will be resolved as soon as possible".
He emphasized that there is no mental health strategy in Montenegro.
"We don't have institutions that adequately deal with it, an NGO sector that should fill some gaps, a chamber of psychologists, rules that refer to that profession and an organic, organized story in that sense. I expect that it will be without a safety net, we'll see ", concluded Cerović.
Cerović warned that the moment one believes all sources instead of scientific ones, the foundations of Western civilization are being violated, and that this is a potentially tragic situation in which "we are returning to the Middle Ages and superstitions."
"Statistics, data, scientific methods... this is something that most people are not familiar with and are unable to interpret. And then, in the forest of information, someone says - 'keep your hands away from children', 'there is a date by which all the vaccinated will die..."
He appealed to citizens to check who they are getting information from.
Joksimović said that it is quite clear that the benefit of vaccination in children aged 12 and older, who have comorbidities, is significantly greater than the risk.
"When it comes to healthy children, the benefit is certainly greater than the risk, but it is quite clear that the benefit of vaccinating a 13-year-old child is not as convincing as a 50-year-old person. The strength of the recommendation goes accordingly, that's why we said - we recommend those with chronic diseases, but other children can also be vaccinated".
Kavarić said that it is important to vaccinate children in order to reduce the transmission of the virus and more severe forms in those who become infected.
He said that the recommendation of the Association for Preventive Pediatrics will be to issue a recommendation for vaccination of the general population.
He said that they are in favor of vaccinating children aged five and over, and that for children aged 12 and older, they will make a recommendation to vaccinate all children.
"It is now feasible with a consultation with a pediatrician," he reminded.
Joksimović said that only people who have had covid and have been revaccinated should not rush to receive the third dose of the vaccine.
He said that today there is a large amount of data that pregnant women, if they are infected with the coronavirus during pregnancy, often have a severe clinical picture.
"Vaccination of pregnant women is strongly recommended. The latest scientific study showed that there are no problems and that pregnant women are vaccinated in the first trimester. It is recommended that they be vaccinated with Pfizer because we have the most data that it is safe," he emphasized.
Joksimović pointed out that the fact that a person has thrombophilia does not mean that he should not be vaccinated.
"Furthermore, covid is a disease that is highly thrombogenic, the risks of clot formation are higher than after vaccination and people who have thrombophilia may be at a higher risk from covid than from vaccination," he emphasized.
Joksimović said that, according to the data and facts so far, it is completely justified to receive the third, "booster" dose of the anti-covid vaccine five months after receiving the second dose.
"We used vaccines that are widespread in the USA, the EU, Australia, they are mRNA vaccines, but we also used the Sputnik and Sinofarm vaccines. What is a problem for us from a professional point of view is that there are data, scientific works in terms of Russian and Chinese vaccines significantly less than mRNA vaccines such as Pfizer and Astrazeneca. This makes the job significantly more difficult in terms of recommendations and we have to openly say that to citizens, although some were happy to accept the Chinese vaccine and so on, which is perfectly fine, but things have changed now." .
If he had been asked in March if there was a difference in the vaccines, he said, he would have replied: "receive any".
"Now, in November, it would be irresponsible to say that every vaccine is the same. There are differences between them and these differences are not insignificant," Joksimović emphasized.
He said certain vaccines have been shown to work less well in the elderly.
"For now, based on all the data on effectiveness, mRNA vaccines, primarily Pfizer and Moderna, give significantly better results than the others. At this moment, the data absolutely point to that."
Cerović pointed to the phenomenon of trying to create an impression in the public that the scientific community does not agree when it comes to the benefits of vaccination.
"Who disagrees, one in a hundred thousand? The Internet has the ability to make some information visible and you get the impression that there is some terrible controversy. Unfortunately, both doctors and professors are people exposed to that information, and there is no centralized source that says - listen all of you, look, but this has more weight than anything else."
Kavarić said that a message should be sent to anyone, at any level, that they need vaccination, assessing that public officials have a special responsibility.
"If that important person lacks a doctor's recommendation that he should be vaccinated considering his age, what he does, responsibility... here - doctor Kavarić recommends him to get vaccinated. Of course in consultation with the chosen doctor, but he already has the recommendation ".
When asked why not all doctors are vaccinated against covid, why there is a lower level of vaccination among educational workers, and why public officials do not trust the health system, Kavarić said that he wants to believe that there are no doctors and health workers who have dilemmas, or that from their position they do not create dilemmas for their patients.
There are still more than enough susceptible people in the population that the coronavirus epidemic in Montenegro can last for a long time, as well as for those who have not yet been infected to have the opportunity to become infected, Joksimović emphasized.
"It is crucial that they understand that it is better for the vaccinated to wait for that moment," he pointed out.
Joksimović said that it helps if people who are in certain positions in the state and have influence on citizens follow the recommendations of the profession, saying that their responsibility is also greater.
When asked if there are any doctors who really recommend that someone should not be vaccinated against covid, he said that he does not know such a doctor, but that they probably exist in every country.
"The scientific consensus about the benefits of vaccination at the world level absolutely exists," he pointed out.
Cerović said that some prefer to believe that they know something that others do not, which, as he said, is completely irrational.
He also referred to the attitude of those who believe that the obligation to wear a protective mask, as one of the basic measures to prevent the spread of the virus, is a threat to freedom.
"Why do we stop at a traffic light, fasten our seat belts... Why do we wash our hands? Does anyone guarantee that we won't get infected by something? No one told me that this is a violation of my freedom."
Someone, as he said, at some point deliberately launched a series of problematic theses which, in the case of the coronavirus epidemic, will result in a large number of deaths.
Trusted public figures, artists, athletes, actors, academics... Everyone, at all times, should promote similar facts that are prepared for communication with the population, Kavarić said.
"I have the impression that we greatly underestimated the citizens, carelessly pushing the idea that they are unknown, irresponsible," he said.
Joksimović said that as experts they must spread the scientific truth and that the point is not to scare citizens that covid is serious, but to explain why immunization is important.
"No one ever said - get vaccinated and you won't die. But by getting vaccinated, you drastically reduce the risk of that happening, of having severe complications..."
He explained that the unvaccinated are an "ideal incubator" for the spread of the virus.
Cerović said that one of the fundamental objections of people who shy away from vaccination is that there is someone's interest in promoting vaccination.
"That these are some secret centers of power, which have so much power over people and globally, that they can promote something that is harmful to people. To reduce the population and the like".
"Hundreds of thousands of scientists work in laboratories and try in every way to find out more. Is it possible that anyone can believe that this is such a massive organization of murderers, who are silent and say - 'let's kill this population,'" asked Cerović. .
Cerović pointed out the danger of not trusting confirmed, scientific information.
If something is important and verified - it is scientific journals, he pointed out.
"We have come to a situation where the majority identify the very fact that something is in a scientific journal with bad intentions. The scientific community has come to such bad conclusions in the public that it is appropriate that - as soon as science claims something, it must be the opposite".
Cerović said that today anyone can market information through the Internet in a way that is devastating and has an incredible impact.
"The more I am free from responsibility in this, the more unscrupulous I am. No official information can use the unscrupulous methods of someone who is completely irresponsible".
"We faced a total fragmentation of the truth, it no longer exists. There is a majority influence who more often, faster, through more channels, different media... shouts and screams their truth".
Kavarić pointed out the amount of misinformation about the supposed danger of vaccines.
"If you underestimate covid, and overestimate yourself in the sense - 'it won't affect me, my family'... postponing vaccination is fatally dangerous".
He recalled the importance of communication with citizens.
"It would be very bad to say that citizens are uneducated and that's why we have this situation, it's a wrong approach. Citizens cannot be blamed in a state that is organized. The state must assist, educate them, give them information, free them from fear. ..," he said.
Kavarić said that there are two key things that are not clear to the authorities or the citizens: "The first premise - is covid-19 a danger at all for the citizens and Montenegro. We often wonder if this is clear to everyone. The second thing is - whether it was explained to everyone that vaccines are tested, safe, of high quality and that they save health and lives".
Epidemiologist Milko Joksimović said that the current epidemiological situation is a "picture and example" of how we behaved and implemented epidemiological measures, and to some extent the pace at which vaccination against covid-19 was carried out.
The situation with the epidemic is difficult, it has been complicated for a long time, and the data on the number of infected and deceased should worry everyone, he added.
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