At the end of the show, Kovač called on the MPs to "stop the agony" and to finally translate the "grain of compromise" into the election of enough candidates to unblock the Constitutional Court.
Ćalović Marković once again warned that a standard should not be established that everything in the state depends on the will of 41 deputies, "that there are no institutions, laws, or the Constitution", concluding that citizens are least cared about.
Kovač, speaking about the decision to cancel custody of Vesna Medenica and accept bail for Petar Lazović, said that it is very worrying that there are two such decisions on Sunday.
He said that in both very important cases there was a departure from the previous decision-making practice.
"The plan is the Ministry of Justice and we have already submitted an initiative to the Supreme Court to carry out the procedure of judicial control and to check how certain cases are divided in the High Court," he stated.
Speaking about the current cases in Montenegro, Komnenić recalled that MANS asked ASK to urgently declare the assets of Zoran Lazović, so that it would be known that the bail for his son, ANB official Petar Lazović, was not paid by some other means.
He also recalled the decision to release the former president of the Supreme Court, Vesna Medenica.
Ćalović Marković said that she was not surprised by the decisions in both cases.
"I believe that the trials will be similar to those decisions. If we had a public trial for the 'coup', we have the right as a public to have a public trial for the former president of the Supreme Court, who edited the entire judicial system for more than a decade.
She said that Medenica still has a huge situation in the judiciary. "We don't have the names of the judges who decided in her case, to see if there is a conflict of interest".
The names of the judges, Ćalović Marković adds, are not known even in the case of Petar Lazović.
"Let's see if there are any connections and assets that cannot be explained. In the case of Lazović, it is important to find out where Mr. Lazović got so much money with which he wants to guarantee his son. How was that money acquired. He was a public official and brought is in a relationship with persons at the highest level of the criminal hierarchy in the region. We are sitting on the famous wedding of Safet Kalić and his presence at that wedding," she pointed out.
Minister Kovač, in response to Ćalović Marković's objection that the draft Law on the Origin of Property was not published on the Government's website, said that the reason for this was a cyber attack and that they were working under extraordinary conditions.
He said that it was not a secret and that he could send her the document after the show to be published.
Ćalović Marković said that certain solutions in the law, which could be learned from the media, represent a step backwards and that it is better not to adopt that law in that case.
One of the remarks, as she stated, is related to when the law can be applied, that is, to which property it can apply. "That it will essentially refer to the property that was acquired in the period from 2012. If that is the case, it means absolutely nothing," she added.
She said that the "first millions" were acquired in the XNUMXs and in the first decade of this century.
"What about the assets of the company Bemaks, which the prime minister often names? If the law was implemented only 10 years ago, Bemaks was formed in 2007," she added, saying that Milo Đukanović "made the first million" much earlier.
"The same is the case with when Aco Đukanović from the bureau went and bought Prva banka," she said.
Kovač said that this is the most transparent law.
He explained that it is stipulated that property acquired ten years before or after the commission of the criminal offense can be confiscated.
"If we are dealing with crimes within the jurisdiction of the SDT, that jurisdiction was established in 2010 by amendments to the Criminal Code. It means that we have the possibility to go 10 years in relation to the commission of the criminal offense, which would mean that - if the criminal offense was committed in 2010, we can cover the period up to the year 2000. The time frame of application of the law is 20 years compared to the present moment," said Kovač.
Ćalović Marković assessed that the law will not bring results and will bring confusion in the legal system.
The executive director of Action for Human Rights (HRA), Tea Gorjanc Prelevic, whose statement was broadcast, said that we do not have the luxury of going back to the beginning of the selection of judges of the Constitutional Court.
"If it were to happen that this election fails, it would show that Montenegro is not able to establish the Constitutional Court and maintain an organ that is one of the key for maintaining the government, the functioning of the state, which inevitably brings the legitimacy of the state into question."
She said that the behavior of the deputies in this case is a true measure of their patriotism, because the international reputation of "the young state of Montenegro is now at its lowest ebb because of this situation."
The election of only one judge would formally enable that court to work, but essentially it would not change much, she added, stressing that it is necessary to elect four judges.
Gorjanc Prelevic assessed that the current candidates are "quite solid experts" and that their professional references are obvious.
"The MPs had the opportunity to challenge their expertise and reputation, but they did not do it. Even the DPS MPs, who refuse to vote for them, did not challenge their credibility, but praised them. The only thing that can be concluded is that it is a political trade - two of ours for two of yours. This destroys the will for any independent person to apply for those competitions in the future," she warned.
She said that obstructing the election of judges is a betrayal of national interests.
Kovač said that he did not want to say whether the amendments to the Law on the President are unconstitutional, because he did not qualify the fact that President Đukanović did not give a mandate to form the Government to Miodrag Lekić, but that the Constitutional Court is competent for that.
As for this law, however, he said that it cannot be viewed without the "introductory part and the history that preceded that law".
"The behavior of President Đukanović perverted democracy and the meaning of democratic decision-making and parliamentary majority. By applying an analogy that does not exist in the Constitution, he assumed the will of 41 deputies," Kovač said.
Ćalović Marković repeated that the behavior of Đukanović cannot be a justification for the behavior of the parliamentary majority.
She assessed that the current majority is running away from the elections because they saw how they fared in the local elections in Podgorica.
"They are doing everything they can to postpone the extraordinary parliamentary elections," she said, adding that the postponement of local elections was not a regular process. "Is there any responsibility for any individual who voted for such a law," she asked.
Kovač did not agree with the assessment that someone is running away from the elections, saying that it is not in anyone's interest to deepen the current crisis.
"We are aware that the parties that make up the government do not have the legitimacy to lead the government in full capacity, and it is in everyone's interest to reach a solution," he added, saying that the election of a new government and the holding of extraordinary elections are completely legitimate.
Kovač pointed out that the election of one judge of the Constitutional Court is not a permanent solution, but a bridging crisis situation.
As he said, it must be understood that the fact that a party gets a candidate will ultimately be bad for the country
"We have a situation where a constitutional appeal is in danger of no longer being an effective legal remedy. It is a legal slap that we will receive if we do not come to our senses and understand the importance of that institution," he emphasized.
Kovač, speaking about the postponement of the elections, when reminded that the Constitutional Court overturned the decision of the parliament, said that for many years there was a discourse about the need to unify the elections, but that it was obviously not done properly.
The editor and host of the show "Načisto" Petar Komnenić stated that there are no disqualifications when it comes to the four current candidates for the Constitutional Court - Snežana Armenko, Ilija Vukčević, Jadranka Novaković and Jelena Ružičić.
He asked what, on the other hand, was known about the judges of that court, Desanka Lopičić and Budimir Šćepanović.
Ćalović Marković said that it is known that both of them, contrary to the law, received apartments from the executive in 2016.
"Lopičić got an apartment of 75 square meters, for which she paid 12.915 euros, although at that time she had an apartment of 69 square meters in Podgorica, and her husband a house of 130 square meters and three business premises of about 140 square meters. She was not in a state of housing need... and the apartment she owned is being given to her son," she stated.
She also reminded that Šćepanović paid 90 euros for a 13.173 square meter apartment in the same year.
"The law already stipulated that the executive power cannot give judges and prosecutors any housing loans or apartments, but that this must be regulated by the regulations of those institutions. The Constitutional Court does not issue regulations, even though it is legally obliged to do so, but addresses the executive power to meet their housing needs that they don't have".
"Of the seven judges of the Constitutional Court, as many as we had, five received either an apartment or a loan from the executive power after 2016," pointed out Ćalović Marković.
She assessed that there is a political battle over who will control the Constitutional Court. He believes that the election of one judge is not a good solution, but that it would move from the "dead point" anyway.
Until recently, the judge of the Constitutional Court, Miodrag Iličković, whose statement was broadcast, said that he believes that the election of only one judge of the Constitutional Court would be a bad solution and a semblance of unblocking that institution.
He said that the functionality of that court would not be achieved in that way.
The Constitutional Court, as he stated, is in real danger of being ineffective, that is, of practically getting into a situation where citizens "skip" it and turn directly to the court in Strasbourg, "as if it were not there." He said it would be devastating.
"If we enter the logic of candidate selection 'how many are ours and yours', then we will get a situation where each side will provide a blocking mechanism. If four judges are elected, one vote against is enough for the decision not to be made. Neither one nor the other side he will not be able to do what he wants before such a court, but he will have the possibility to block every decision," Iličković stated.
He called it arrogance not to even vote on 22 candidates.
He emphasized that the most important task of the Constitutional Court is to protect the citizen from the government elected democratically, in fair and free elections.
"Politics, if they want that court, they can choose it. If they want to have power and manage the court, then we will have a party fight".
He said that he had not heard any objections when it came to the four candidates for judges of the Constitutional Court.
Ćalović Marković also assessed that voting on existing candidates for judges of the Constitutional Court would be more effective than returning the process to the beginning.
She reminded that the presidential elections are coming up, and that when the president's mandate expires, that function will be performed by the President of the Assembly.
"At the same time, it is the President of the Assembly who calls presidential elections. If we do not have a Constitutional Court, there is a high probability that the President of the Assembly will say that she cannot call elections without a court, and therefore, when Đukanović's mandate expires, then the President of the Assembly will begin to perform her duties the president of the country. This is what Article 99 of the Constitution prescribes, and what are we going to do then? How will it work," she asked.
The key is to elect judges as soon as possible so that the presidential elections can be held in a regular term, the executive director of MANS emphasized.
Ćalović Marković also stated that the judges of the Constitutional Court will probably decide on Đukanović's third term, if he decides to run for office.
"He was president in a federal state, so now he had one mandate, and now it is a matter of interpretation whether it will be his third mandate or his second in an independent state," she said, reminding that it is an "identical situation" as with the former President Filip Vujanović.
"Now that court should interpret whether Đukanović has put an end to his political career or has a chance to continue. A lot is at stake," she added.
Kovač assessed that returning the process of electing judges of the Constitutional Court to the beginning would be a waste of time
He does not believe that the solution is to choose only one of the four candidates, but that it is necessary to choose at least two or three, and preferably all four.
"I don't see anything controversial in the biographies of people who built a career in the system until August 30 (2020) and I don't see the danger that tomorrow those people, who were judges, in the position of deputy ombudsman, will decide on the conformity of the Law on the President with the Constitution. Let it be put before the Constitutional Court immediately, so that we know if it is constitutional, so that we know what the next situation is."
He said that he sees the solution in the institutions.
"If we repeat the election, it is a new process of instability, a new gray zone, new problems that are happening in the work of the Constitutional Court, which is full of problems..."
The Constitutional Court must not be a coin for bribery, said the Minister of Justice.
Ćalović Marković assessed that the excuse for the behavior of the current majority is sought in the behavior of President Milo Đukanović.
"If we introduce a rule that if Đukanović behaves in a certain way, then the new government can do the same or worse, where is Montenegro going? If we introduce a rule that 41 MPs can decide on everything, apart from uzus, standards, any comparative practice, I ask - what will we do if DPS returns," she said.
Vanja Ćalović Marković, when asked how she assesses the chances that the Constitutional Court will be unblocked at the Assembly session on November 28, said that everything depends on the Democratic Party of Socialists (DPS) and their assessments of whether they will accept to vote for one of the four candidates.
"These candidates have been elected to public positions for years precisely by the DPS, their regime. They are not party candidates of the new government, so that the DPS has an excuse for not being able to find anyone who does not deserve to be elected. It will be a matter of political decision and party, which will depend on whether we will be able to get out of this situation," she said.
If there is no Constitutional Court, there are no parliamentary elections either, warned Ćalović Marković.
Minister of Justice Marko Kovač said that there is no information regarding the meeting of the parliamentary parties, whether there is a chance of reaching an agreement and electing judges.
"I hope that reason will prevail and that the institutions of the Constitutional Court will be understood," he said, saying that this court has one of the most important roles in the legal system of our country.
"I am afraid that, nevertheless, narrow-party interests will prevail and that we will enter a new spiral of uncertainty, which does not benefit anyone," he added.
Ćalović Marković said that it seems that political agreements are being reached about everything, and that references are not important, but which political party the candidate will "listen to" in his decision-making.
"After the change of government, we should have built institutions, and not put them under political control, in order to create 'little Đukanovics.' is she.
How to free the institutions and the system from the pernicious party combinatorics?
Is the functional unblocking of the Constitutional Court possible on November 28, and who is obstructing the revitalization of that institution?
How was the anti-constitutional practice domesticated and how did we allow the umbrella legal act to be defended by those who threw it under our feet?
Who is running away from extraordinary parliamentary elections and have we become guinea pigs in fruitless party experiments?
The guests of tonight's show "Nachisto" are the Minister of Justice Marko Kovač and the Executive Director of MANS Vanja Ćalović Marković.
As part of the show, watch interviews with the until recently judge of the Constitutional Court, Miodrag Iličković, and the executive director of Action for Human Rights, Teo Gorjanc Prelević.
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